Arafat, brain dead

[Karmashock]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1504&u=/afp/20041104/ts_afp/mideast_arafat_041104205203&printer=1

[tom]

Well I can't find anything about him being brain dead, but he is gravely ill apparently.

[Karmashock]

Technically, Arafat is "not dead," one source told AFP on condition of confidentiality. But there was no hope of him leaving his vegetative state and recovering basic bodily functions such as breathing without assistance.

Such artificial care can be "extended for several days or several weeks thanks to the machines," the source said.

Israel's private Channel 2 network and army radio had reported that Arafat had been declared dead at a military hospital in Clamart, southwest of Paris.

But Azzam al-Ahmed, communications minister in the Palestinian cabinet and one of Arafat's closest allies, insisted news of his death was premature.

"It is wrong. If the president was dead, the whole world would know," he told AFP. "But it is true that he is a very critical condition."

I'm not a doctor, so I can't say one way or another unless specifically told... but this info sure looks like it... :drink:

[Justice]

"Gravely ill," apparently in a coma.

I almost cheered when there was a broadcast that said he was dead; it later turned out to be false. I still can't believe he didn't accept the incredible concessions the Israelis were offering him during the 90's. I can't believe he seriously expected to get better from the Israelis. I mean, how much more generous can you get?

cheers, and
-=</|awesome party|\>=-

[/<yle]

Hopefully, the sanctioned former terrorist dies. He gives me a headache and only causes problems.

[Justice]

It's time for Palestine and Israel to move forwards. Obviously, Arafat is the impediment to the progress.

cheers, and
-=</|awesome party|\>=-

[/<yle]

He really was. he was a terrorist, but we recognized him as their leader... and to this day, i blame him for most of the conflict, along with all of isreals bordering nations... they need another 7 day war.

[DrunkenUno]

Israel would own everyone, and then the EU would cry about how the Palestinians are getting owned, and then we should nuke europe.

GG world.

[CELTIC_2X]

i am sorry r u trying to be funny or r u a retard?

[Justice]

No.

He's not trying to be anything. He is, in fact, right.

[Karmashock]

ditto.

(writing more so that it accepts the post... more more more...)

[Justice]

Note that Israel has quite a large, potent military for such a small country, as well as a complete nuclear arsenal.

It's more than capable of owning every single Muslim country in the middle east added together.

[Polaris]

I love israel! those guys are awesome!
one of my jewish friends told me that some time ago, they were attacked and caught completely off gaurd, but achieved complete air dominance within 48 hours. how awesome is that?
imho, the US needs to tell the palistinians to stfu, and give the israelis what they want and deserve. they know how to deal with terrorists: send a chopper and a missile.

[Karmashock]

They all need to be serious about peace. So the Palestinians haven't been very cooperative... it's pretty much "submit or die"... maybe arafat dying will soften them...

[Justice]

It'll be a new era, for sure.

However....if they put a person even more radical than Arafat in office, then there's absolutely no chance for peace.

:(

[laserflip]

haha yea celtic = pwned, drunk is in fact right. and although i dont like the raghead, i wouldn't wish death on him, and i think its sad than anyone is dying. hell be missed by some, i'm sure. think of how his family feels!

[/<yle]

Isreal has ICBM technology, and is capable of hitting anywhere in the world. however, all their nukes are tied up aimed at iran, Egypt, Jordan, syria, and the other Mid east countrys that threaten it. And they would fire if they felt threatened.

[Karmashock]

if that were settled under bush it would do a lot to bulster our position and get the people calling us war mongers to wake up... it would also serve our national interests by drying up terrorist recruiting.

[laserflip]

i think we need to just let the middle east destroy itself, then come over in about 10 years and sucka ll the oil dry and all drive around in big fucking interceptors with a lvl 2 speed upgrade and hog up all the fucking gas.

[tom]

I love israel! those guys are awesome!
one of my jewish friends told me that some time ago, they were attacked and caught completely off gaurd, but achieved complete air dominance within 48 hours. how awesome is that?
imho, the US needs to tell the palistinians to stfu, and give the israelis what they want and deserve. they know how to deal with terrorists: send a chopper and a missile.

That was the "Six-Day War" fought in 1967. Israel defeated Egypt, Jordan, and Syria and gained control of the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula, the West Bank and the Golan Heights areas.

You can clearly see that that war is still being fought today.

[Ummon]

One may argue that Arafat has been brain-dead his whole life.

[MVB]

I don't know his up-to-the-minute status, but that article is from yahoo news, who have further proven again here that they are completely untrustworthy and bs-ists. At the exact same time this was posted, a number of relatively reliable sources reported him in a critical coma and between life and death, but experiencing no brain death whatsoever. I hate yahoo news. They blow.

[Justice]

Still.

Every other news source has confirmed that Arafat is hovering between life and death in a coma. It's not prognosis negative, but then again, it's not "he's going to be discharged" any time soon either.

[Ummon]

The general description of the clinical case leads me to believe that Arafat is suffering from a case of Aplastic Anhemia (which can be provoked by poisoning too), and he has gone past irreversible medullar damage (eg. he will die soon). The French doctors sternly refuse to spread fake news (as the palestinians asked them to) that he is recovering, and on the other hand if my hypothesis is true recovery is impossible.

Probably, all this tantrum is to avoid violence in the territories until the PLO achieves an agreement with fundamentalists.

[MVB]

NO I HEARD HES ACTUALL DEAD FOR 8 YEARS AND THIS IS HIS BODY DOUBLE TO KEEP UP APPEARANCES BUT THEYRE FUKED CU Z NOW THE BODY DOBLE IS IN A COMA O NO!


-.-

[MVB]

Actually, Ummon, they don't know what he's got, and I doubt that you could give any kind of accurate hypothesis from miles away and without even being a physician of any kind.

[Ummon]

Aplastic Anhemia is a general cathegory including hundreds of different causes, but the (albeit sketchy) description of his symptoms is what one would expect in that case.

Even the fact that initially they suspected a cancer is perfectly coherent with that hypothesis.

I give this wild guess a 90% probability.

EDIT: edited post after MVB posted his second one.

[Justice]

O.o

What movie?

Prognosis Negative?

[Ummon]

Excerpt from my hematology book:

The prognosis of bone marrow aplasia (synonym of the above definition) is determined by the entity of the peripheral and medullary cytopenia. In 1976 the following negative prognostic factors have been identified

a) ...
b) ...
c) ...

d) severe reduction of medullary cell count...

...It should be remembered that the patient with severe medullary aplasia has less than 20% probability to be alive 12 months later.

... The therapy of Aplastic Anhemia is articulated in three phases:

1) elimination of the contact with the suspected etiological agent (this would be impossible in this case because the cause is apparently unknown)

2) support therapy (that's what he's probably receiving now, but this sort of therapy, eg. transfusions and growth factors, might have collateral effects on an old man, and might not be enough if the case is acute and the patient's condition severely compromised)

3) Therapy intended to restore mielopoiesis (medullary transplant, which Arafat is too old to receive).

EDIT: edited to correct a medullar into medullary.

[Marb]

Yeah so..I've heard he's dead now.

Rest in Peace.

Palestinian leader Yassir Arafat died early on Thursday morning at a French military hospital in Paris.

Yassir Arafat, the 75 year-old Palestinian leader, was determined to be clinically dead in a French military hospital in the early hours of Thursday morning. Arafat was being treated there for an unknown illness.

[Ummon]

De mortuis nihil nisi bonum

[tom]

bah, no decent latin translators on the internet (isn't that surprising?).

[Ummon]

About the dead, (it's not right to say) anything but good.

And btw, my diagnose was apparently mistaken, they say he suffered from a cardio-pulmonary disease of unknown origin.

[Justice]

Hopefully, Abbas can help restore stability in the region.

Maybe Arafat's death will help get both the Israelis and Palestinians committed to peace.

[MVB]

Or spark a new wave of religious warfare, sending millions more Jews to Sheoul and Muslims to the World of the 80 Virgins.

[Justice]

Or spark a new wave of religious warfare, sending millions more Jews to Sheoul and Muslims to the World of the 80 Virgins.


That could happen, too. There is a chance that the Palestinian's won't trust Abbas, because he's so heavily supported in Washington and Jerusalem. There's a chance that heavy U.S. influence/involvement will spark new extremism. Best thing to do is to stay a close distance away while encouraging the two sides to talk and mediating those talks.

[MVB]

If we mediate the talks, we aren't staying a safe distance away.

[shutupandshave]

This is one thing I would like to see the U.S. involved in - unless the general concensus in the US is that Israel is in the right and Palenstine is in the wrong. I think the U.S. could be very helpful in mediating talks... I would like to see a strong leader in Palestine first though.

[JADezimar]

Most See israel as the right. Cuase Israel isnt hitting palestine with terrorists all the time. But would like a Peaceful resolve in the situation.

[Justice]

[quote]If we mediate the talks, we aren't staying a safe distance away]/quote]

If we don't mediate those talks, there will be no legitimacy for the talks anyways. I'm talking ... stay a safe distance away ... i.e., just hypothetically, not sending U.S. troops to Israel to monitor a cease-fire.

[shutupandshave]

Most See israel as the right. Cuase Israel isnt hitting Palestine with terrorists all the time.
Why did you capitalise the word "See" but not "israel"?

Here's some light reading for you JAD.
http://www.flonnet.com/fl2019/stories/20030926004902600.htm
http://www.counterpunch.org/sharon.html

[JADezimar]

Lame typing o0 skilz of mine :P

[JADezimar]

I read those and am a bit more informed of the situation o0. But War is War Sharon should probably be prosecuted for his crimes and a new leader in Israel should arise. But as of the Last 5-7 years. Its been palestinians terroisms that creates these hositile actions for what appears for there land back o0. But history has many wars and when land is annexed its not alwayz returned despite it being right or wrong. Many nations wouldnt exist today if It werent for the annexation of land at one point or another. And its time for peace in the Israeli sector. I agree that sharon was in the wrong. And From that I can c why Israeli would be hated..... But this also dont explain the prior history......If you want to go back further and further its a vicious cycle. That Should just be ended now. All Palestenians would have to do is give it up and quite(and why do I say Palestine cuase its them pushing the issue now) Its a continous cycle. You say but israeli took there land.... Well if you go back far enough it was Israels land o0.

Also media will one day will say bombing from palestines in israel, then the next israeli choppers attacked etc etc. its continous cycle. (But Maybe some are mislead by everything by the meda controlled again I say by corporate america) The zionists term was very familiar to me. Ive read exerts from a book with a propostrous title. The title itself turns most people off as it looks racists. But it talks about powerful corporate america and zionists Trying to weild the future of the world into what it wants. Maybe henrey ford was crazy or its true. But the more we talk about Eradicating islams, and usa siding in with sharon back when reagon was president points to henrey fords book being honest and truthful. Ima go buy the book probably and read the whole thing to c if it has actual racists exerts in it or not. Cuase from what I read it Seems Fairly legite. It talks about zionists and Higher corporate America doing there best to control our political parties, Lawmakers and Decision makers. etc etc. And controlling media.

[shutupandshave]

Did you read through those links yet?

[Karmashock]

people keep telling me he had aids... nothing to confirm that... that would be a weird spin on the whole thing...

[MVB]

The controlling body of the US media has a large proportion of Jewish individuals, and as such there is usually a pro-Israel bias in the US media. I'd say that most people are just confused about the Palestine-Israel conflict. It doesn't do Palestinians ANY good at ALL to engage in suicide bombing, and so they generally get the worse rap, b/c Israelis don't suicide bomb people ... they DO engage in military actions against semi-civillian, terrorist and pseudo-military targets in Palestine, and that is no good at all, but they are not in the general habit of bombing civillian buses. There probably is a deserved and slightly worse bias against Palestinians, but it is not severe enough to cause US intermediaries to be unfair in their assistance. I frankly think the US should engage in talks, but frankly I don't think the Islamic world, Palestinians included, will approve.

[Karmashock]

Who's asking them?... set up a government and have it provide stability... then they can suicide bomb their own people...

[JADezimar]

lol ya

[Justice]

They need somebody to suicide bomb to keep up outside and inside "interest" in their organizations. They'll be working very hard against the peace process, because then they'd have nothing to fight against.

[/<yle]

hes dead. Now, lets hope palestine doesnt have the balls to try something

[Karmashock]

I wouldn't count on them being nice guys... we need encourage Israel to impose peace.

Does that sound nice?... it isn't... it's the right way to do things in this situation though. This whole thing is out of fucking control.

If the US had something like Palestine next to it, we would have done this decades ago...

It would have been over before it started.

[Justice]

If the US had something like Palestine next to it, we would have done this decades ago...

It would have been over before it started.

Yup. Israel has been extremely patient. I'm not saying that what Israel has done is right ... but I do commend the fact that they haven't nuked the West Bank yet.

[/<yle]

oh, if any other country makes a move, theirs nukes going up into egypt, iran, jordan, syria, and other places.... dont fuck with isreal!

[JADezimar]

ok ?

[Karmashock]

kyle, israel isn't going to nuke anyone... not unless there is a mass invasion... and is really unlikely...

[Critta]

If the US had something like Palestine next to it, we would have done this decades ago...

It would have been over before it started.

But then that's the American way isn't is.

Take your country from the people who have been living there for 100's or 1000's of years, whilst at the same time trying to pretend you have some kind of moral highground which allows you to be blameless. If anyone complains, threaten them with millitary force.

Palestine/Israel is exactly the same, the UN forced 300,000 palistinians to leave their family homes becuase it "wasn't their land any more" then wondered why they got pissed off about it.

The Israli's were given an uber-armed forces & nukes so invasion was imossible, so the palistinians went with the only option left to them, terrorism.

Are you saying that if America had been involved you wouldn't have bothered moving the Palistinians, just killed them instead, certainly seems to be the way you've run things in Iraq.

Bah.

[MVB]

Britain took nations from their people all over the world. The Palestinians took their land from the people before them. It goes back and back to the origins of time. Perhaps more important is analyzing what those people have done with the land once they have taken it, and what attempts have been made at reparations in hindsight.

Terrorism is not an acceptable option, Critta, in any situation. Suicide bombing a bus of civillians accomplishes nothing and is not a "last resort," it's simply wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right, either, or so everyone says. I just don't think anyone has ANY right to validate the Palestinians, PERIOD, for their terrorist actions. They are wrong, and terrible for doing them. There ARE wrongs on both sides, and that is important to know, but validating the actions of terrorists is something no one should ever be doing.

We haven't just gone around killing people in Iraq. You seem to think American soldiers are murdering bastards that just kill all who oppose them, which could not be farther from the truth. OF course, you don't hear about the numerous stories of American soldiers working WITH the Iraqi people, organizing food drives from home (I have a large # of friends or acquaintances in Iraq or with family in Iraq, and I know several people who every week send literally TONS of supplies and food by pitching together their money to Iraq, where their soldier family members or friends distribute them to the Iraqi people), or where American soldiers take children off the street and into safe zones to play during the day. Maybe you don't hear about how Iraqis were literally living and playing on dirt streets with build-ups of raw sewage, in the MIDDLE of Baghdad, but now have real paved streets thanks to the American military installing them. People on BOTH sides of support are so bluntly closed-minded to what's going on, seeming to think that EITHER the Americans do nothing wrong, or do nothing right, and I hate seeing people make such dumbfuck assumptions about both.

[Karmashock]

Critta,
cheap and pathetic...

Did the US take land from the Native Americans?... yeah... guess what? There isn't ONE COUNTRY ON EARTH THAT DIDN"T DO THE SAME FUCKING THING (island countries that no one else got to excluded of course...)!

The only difference is when.

So I'm going to discard that rather silly comment... on to the next...
------------------------------
The moral high ground we had at the time was with the Kings of Europe... not hard to have a moral high ground against them... unless you want to defend them.. which should be interesting.
On again through more of your sad drivel...
---------------------
The Land was largely already in the hands of a privately organized Zionist movement. Did the UN backed by the US and Britain expanded that territory?... moderately... the arab population density was pretty low at the time. Further, I believe they were allowed to stay.
-------------------------
Israel began its existence as a full ally of the US, which means you get full access to US military technology and logistical support. You typically have to buy it from us, but we will only sell our high-end technology to a short list of countries and our top technology is sold to no one.

Point, Israel got the weapons because they were friends and were gifted/bought supplies from us just like any other ally. We have the same relationship with the UK.

WE NEVER GAVE ISRAEL THE BOMB... They actually stole it from us... same way most people got the bomb... Google it... I think we still have the guy in prison that did it.

Moving on...
----------------------------
The Palestinian situation didn't start to get bad until AFTER the war with Egypt and Jordan. Israel was attacked, beat them off, and claimed enemy territory by right of conquest.

If Egypt and Jordan didn't want to lose land then they shouldn't have attacked Israel... they could have all lived in peace.

Most of the Palestinians came from those areas. Any other set of countries would have allowed their people to return to their countries. But no... Jordan and Egypt put them in refugee camps... telling them that they would get the land back from the Israelis...

That’s more or less where they've been... The Palestinian population has built up around Israel more because Israel has jobs then that Israel was placed in the middle of a big population center.

on again...
------------------------
Jerusalem is not a Muslim holy city... The city is sacred to them of course, but it is recognized at a religious level as belonging to Jews and Christians. So the Muslims demanding it on religious grounds is baseless.
--------------------------
They were offered peace and turned it down twat, wake up.

[Ummon]

But then that's the American way isn't is.

Take your country from the people who have been living there for 100's or 1000's of years, whilst at the same time trying to pretend you have some kind of moral highground which allows you to be blameless. If anyone complains, threaten them with millitary force.


I am sure you'd prefer an America populated by a few hundred thousand backward savages. I do prefer America populated by millions of free men enjoying and contributing to all the good and bad sides of the modern world.

Of course conquest wars are never right. But often there are natural developements to reality, which cannot be averted simply being good guys and staying home for supper with mom.

[Karmashock]

All due respect to the Native Americans, but they were a stone age culture on a rich virgin continent...

I'm sorry... but that just can't last.

If ANY major culture from 5,000 years ago were put into competition with the Native Americans of 400 years ago... the Native Americans would lose... and lose badly.

If we hadn't done it, some one else would have... does that make what we did right?... it makes it inevitable.

[MVB]

Calling the Native Americans weak as a culture is not adequate justification. Of course, people fucked up native inhabitants everywhere they went, including England, so I don't know why it's ok to point fingers.

[Karmashock]

didn't say it was justified... said it was inevitable...

[vacio]

Update: Arafat is now dead. . . .http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=World&cat=Mideast_Conflict

[Karmashock]

*pees on his grave* :)

[JADezimar]

Ya there were natives to everywhere A new nation tried to found. The entire Uk had natives. jesus. LIke I tried to state before Conquest during times of war right or wrong has happend. Or the world would be a way different place today.