Christmas or holiday tree?

[Karmashock]

Very simply, what do you think it should be called?


I stand with those that say, either call it a christmas tree or don't even bother.
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyid=2005-11-25T225326Z_01_KRA582362_RTRUKOC_0_US-LIFE-TREE.xml&rpc=22


Not that gray davis, the old governor, called it a Holiday tree, and arnold called it a christmas tree. Did he get sued? Nope... no one cared. They are not calling them holiday trees to avoid controversy because there is MORE problems when they don't call htem christmas trees. Bitches.

[TheSnake]

Calling it a holiday tree is like calling french fries freedom fries. It sounds so stupid and makes you look like a moron.

[Karmashock]

Calling it a holiday tree is like calling french fries freedom fries. It sounds so stupid and makes you look like a moron.
qft

[Polaris]

or like renaming the properties on monopoly... or even renaming the whole game to "Unfair Economic Advantage"

you didnt invent it, so stop goddam changing the rules. same for marriage. go invent your own fricking union

[Karmashock]

I just want it to be made clear that they're not changing this stuff because of a broad public outcry on the topic. More people would prefer they get left alone then have it changed. Consider that they banned halloween in boston this year too... was it because people had a problem with halloween? No... most were very sad that it didn't happen. YOu got perhaps one or two people with a problem. Get over it.

[Polaris]

right. whatever happened to the spirit of democracy-- you know, majority rule and minority rights?

"you have the right to call it a 'Holiday Tree' if you wish, but the rest of us will just call it a 'Christmas Tree'...."

[Karmashock]

It's just improper for these people to mess with these traditions without a more formal debate on the issue. To just change it as if anyone can just change it at will is messed up.

[Dibujante]

Christmas tree v Holiday tree has to be the most pointless debate that I've seen in American politics.


you didnt invent it, so stop goddam changing the rules. same for marriage. go invent your own fricking unionThis is a debate on christmas tree v holiday tree, not a forum for you to vent your homophobic urges.

[Weavern]

Its a tree and you put stuff under it and make it look good. Who cares what the thing is called its still a tree artificial or otherwise.

[Dibujante]

It's an Arboreal Present Spawn.

[Weavern]

Not thats just being anal and presents should be offerings of apreciations as they convey less monetary value.

[Karmashock]

Christmas tree v Holiday tree has to be the most pointless debate that I've seen in American politics.

This is a debate on christmas tree v holiday tree, not a forum for you to vent your homophobic urges.
Its a tree and you put stuff under it and make it look good. Who cares what the thing is called its still a tree artificial or otherwise.
It was called a christmas tree and most people want it to be called a christmas tree.

So if it doesn't matter. DON"T FUCK WITH IT!

So we can all agree the twits in boston and gray davis should just stop fucking with it.


Love and peace, Karmashock.

[Dibujante]

So we can all agree the twits in boston and gray davis should just stop fucking with it.
Well, they should stop fucking with it, but since they can use it to pretend that they stand for more things than they actually do, they're going to beat that horse to death.

[Karmashock]

Well, they should stop fucking with it, but since they can use it to pretend that they stand for more things than they actually do, they're going to beat that horse to death.
are you refering to the politicians that change the name to "holiday tree" or the mobs of people that gets pissed at them?

sorry, i'm seriously not sure which way your'e going with that...

[Weavern]

Its first and formost a tree. Whatever other 'adjective' you stack onto it like christmass or holiday, etc its still a tree.

[Dibujante]

are you refering to the politicians that change the name to "holiday tree" or the mobs of people that gets pissed at them?

sorry, i'm seriously not sure which way your'e going with that...
Politicians. If you can polarize people you can build a following for yourself. My spin on this issue is that politicians who tout these "changes" believe that there are enough people out there dumb enough to give a damn about calling it a "holiday tree" that they'll vote that way.

[Karmashock]

Its first and formost a tree. Whatever other 'adjective' you stack onto it like christmass or holiday, etc its still a tree.
the meaning of the tree is extremely important however... my middle finger remains a middle finger regardless of whether I hold it front of myself as an insult or it grips an apple at the super market.


However, how it is intended drastically effects how it is interpreted.

[Tigre]

Oh pleaz, the Druids invented the whole tree thing ritual anyways, the early Christians just folded it into thier religion to help Christianize the pagans anyhow.

[Dibujante]

Then it should be an Odin/Wotan tree! If we embrace some third-party pagan name, then everyone will be equally offended and the problem of favoring certain groups will be solved.

[Karmashock]

Oh pleaz, the Druids invented the whole tree thing ritual anyways, the early Christians just folded it into thier religion to help Christianize the pagans anyhow.
Actually, Americans didn't used to do trees at all... the german immigrants brought it over...

[Dibujante]

Given that german origin is the single largest origin in the United States, they're probably as good a definition of anything as to what "american" is.

[Weavern]

Karma you are refering to symbolism not the name itself. Simply by calling a christmass tree another name you are not adjusting the symbolism of it you are just giving it a different name no different then calling it by another name in another language. The symbolism of it remains. Sticking the middle finger up is a symbol and it doesent matter what name you give it the implied meaning is conveyed.

[Karmashock]

Given that german origin is the single largest origin in the United States, they're probably as good a definition of anything as to what "american" is.
largest orgin of what? people? Hardly... of christmas tree stuff?... we abosorb ideas from all imigrants... our music is mixed with black slaves... we have holidays from ireland, legal systems from england... political systems from switzerland...

America is a mutant... we were made by puritians and diests... men that would sooner die then profit by the labor of a slave and men that gloried in it... we have abosorbed people from all the nations of europe.... and asia... south america... africa... America is made up of everyone...


You may be doomed to hate us... but there is not race or creed that is not taken in by this nation.

[Karmashock]

honestly... foamy and I agree about almost everything... it's kind of amusing...

http://www.illwillpress.com/

[Dibujante]

largest orgin of what? people? Hardly... of christmas tree stuff?... we abosorb ideas from all imigrants... our music is mixed with black slaves... we have holidays from ireland, legal systems from england... political systems from switzerland...

America is a mutant... we were made by puritians and diests... men that would sooner die then profit by the labor of a slave and men that gloried in it... we have abosorbed people from all the nations of europe.... and asia... south america... africa... America is made up of everyone...

You may be doomed to hate us... but there is not race or creed that is not taken in by this nation.No, statistically, people who can trace their ancestry back to Germany make up a plurality in the United States.

However, I'm confused as to where the rest of that statement came from? Why the hostility? This is a discussion on the place of Christmas trees in the United States.k

[Karmashock]

No, statistically, people who can trace their ancestry back to Germany make up a plurality in the United States.
Nonsense. And even if that were true, which it isn't, it only demonstrates how people of all nationalities became American... and not what they were... as we've never sided with germany even once so far as I know...

Why the hostility?
You write between the lines, dib... and I read between them.

[Dibujante]

Nonsense. And even if that were true, which it isn't, it only demonstrates how people of all nationalities became American... and not what they were... as we've never sided with germany even once so far as I know...http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries.jpg
It's absolutely true. Why do you think you can categorically deny things out of hand?

Also, what did I ever say about siding with Germany?


You write between the lines, dib... and I read between them.I have no objection to you reading whatever you wish, but what you're reading between the lines was not placed there by me.

[Karmashock]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries.jpg
It's absolutely true.
15 percent isn't high enough to make the statement:
they're probably as good a definition of anything as to what "american" is.
America is an entity unto itself appart from all its orgins or perhaps a product of them all resulting in a whole far greater then the parts. But America is hardly German or Irish or African American.

[Dibujante]

Nonsense. And even if that were true, which it isn't,Regardless, please stop categorically denying things out of hand. A plurality of Americans are of German descent.

That said, I never stated that they were the ideal representative sample. I stated that, as a group, they were as a good a representation as any other group. This is indicative of there being no clear consensus and defining "Christmas" identity.

[Karmashock]

Regardless, please stop categorically denying things out of hand. A plurality of Americans are of German descent.
No, a plurality of Americans probably only remember the German ancestor's orgins. 15 percent are NOT pure blood german.

For example, I am Irish, English, and Danish. However, that only explain about 56 percent of my origin by blood (additionally the English part of my used to come from scottland about 200 years ago, and the danish part came from germany 150 years ago). The remaining 44 percent is totally lost to bad records and time. I could be part indian... part dutch... part black... Who knows? That blood has been here for a long time.


Now, the English and the Danish are the most clear nationalities that I know I came from. The Irish is heavily mixed. So what do you answer on that sheet? I could say English as my grandfather came over here after WWII or I could say Danish as my Besta' (american bastardization of what's danish for grandmother) came over during WW2. But see, I only remember those because that wasn't too long ago.


Is it right to say that I'm either? I think not. The best I can say is "American"... but the thing is that the vast majority of Americans are also JUST American. They can tick anything they like on a sheet, but if you could test their blood, it sure as shit wouldn't be pure blood.

I stated that, as a group, they were as a good a representation as any other group.
No one group can represent. That is a fundementally unamerican concept.

[Dibujante]

No, a plurality of Americans probably only remember the German ancestor's orgins. 15 percent are NOT pure blood german.
Why are you vociferously denying hard science? Is it because I cited it? This demographic never stated that it was looking for "pure bloods", which is a fallacious categorization. It stated that it was looking for people whose European anscestors were of German origin.

[Karmashock]

Why are you vociferously denying hard science?
Wait, did you just call a survey "hard science"? :lol:

Tell me another, chuckles.

It stated that it was looking for people whose European anscestors were of German origin.
Could you choose multiple answers? If not it's pointless. Furthermore, what people remember and what people are... are two different things.

[Mistress Crystal]

Christmas tree.

Just like marriage is now a seccular arrangement, in my opinion, Christmas has been taken past it's religious roots to be a celebration of good will. I've never been religious in my life, but have always liked what Christmas as an idea stood for. Too bad I've not had anyone to celebrate it with for a decade, now.

It's what it's called, and what it's. Get over it.

[Dibujante]

Wait, did you just call a survey "hard science"? :lol:

Tell me another, chuckles.

Could you choose multiple answers? If not it's pointless. Furthermore, what people remember and what people are... are two different things.
Whatever you say, Karmashock. It's apparent that your worldview defines facts, and not the other way around.

[Karmashock]

Whatever you say, Karmashock. It's apparent that your worldview defines facts, and not the other way around.
A pathetic evasion, as usual.

Do you call a free response survey that doesn't allow people to make several choices when bloodlines are mixed and true ancestories are lost "scientific". If you do, then I really don't know what you think you're standing on... but it isn't a leg. *sniffs* could it be bullshit? :lol:


Even then, you'd have to work out the right ratios for them all... it's fucking hopeless.