WMD?

[MVB]

"Iraqi soldiers have discovered a suspected chemical weapons lab in Falluja, while a top aide of wanted terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi has been arrested in Mosul, Iraq's interim national security adviser said today. The reports came as U.S. and Iraqi forces conducted anti-insurgency operations in Falluja, Mosul and south of Baghdad in the province of Babil."

Finally found? Time will tell; and there's no telling if it is chemical weapons indeed that it was there before invasion, or brought in by terrorists afterward. Interesting nonetheless.

[shutupandshave]

I think the WMD discussion is over... there has been so much time passed than someone could have built it (including the whole outside building, not just the "lab") by hand on their own since the allies invaded.

[MVB]

As I stated in my post above, no one will ever know if they were there before or after invasion; it certainly is one more hit to how evil the insurgency is. Also, they are classified as WMD, so I'm not so much talking about whether they were there before or after, as much as I'm talking about the fact that they are indeed there; either they were there beforehand, or they were brought in from a neighbouring country. Food for thought, perhaps.

However, I don't suppose it would matter -- if evidence came out proving it was from before the war started, people would just claim the evidence lied, as they were prepared to do just that when the war started (i.e. Americans are lying, they planted the WMD, it was brought in after the war started by freedom fighters, etc. whatever)

[TFL Maddie]

I am shocked that Bush and his regime didnt plant some if they were not there. I would have thought that they would have done that at least to make their war legit. The war was right to remove a very nasty man. Had someone done this in Japan and Germany in the 1930s lots of people would probably have had less difficult lives. However, devils advocate in me says that somewhere in the millions of people who perished in Dresden, Nagasaki, Hiroshima, and the major fronts and even the attrocities the next Hitler was killed off, thus removing the threat of a man like that with nuclear capabilities.

The day that someone with the will to use any weapon of mass destruction employs a chemical, biological, or nuclear weapon is the day that our world will face a terrible new era.

You know chemical weapons would be best though if someone out there decides to use them. Chem weapons last a maximum of 2 months in the worst case senario. Bio would be terrible. I would certainly be the first to move to the wilderness.

[MVB]

I've already said that the wilderness of the Virginia Blue Ridge mountains is where surviving members of TLSC should meet up; I'll be there and prepped with supplies and what-not. ;)

[shutupandshave]

Actually I think that it was a chem lab that was capable of producing WMD. As far as I know there are no actual WMD.

[JADezimar]

And Intent to murder is still a crime. Just like intent to create wmd and posses the materials is still a crime.

[shutupandshave]

So, having a book on how to make WMD is just as bad as having them?
I suppose having them is just as bad as using them too?

Yes intent to commit a crime is still a crime, but it is not as bad as commiting the crime.

I have instructions on how to make a nuclear bomb. Does that make me a nuclear threat... no, of course it doesn't.

[TFL Maddie]

JADezimar
I dont know you well. So if what you said is true does that mean that the major world powers are criminals? Wherea re you from? You are 21 I think and that is not exactly a worldly age. Not to come off nasty but what is your life like where you are? The reason I ask is I can imagine you to be someone freshly accumulating his thoughts and forming himself.

So is the USA a criminal state? China? Russia? Israel? England? France?
If you think that these are criminal states then fine but if you say that they are not then i think that iran, iraq, lybia, sudan, N Korea, and any other state that builds wmd for the "safety of their people" are not rogue criminal states, as the USA and its current regime led by a member of a Christian cult would have you believe.

By the way, dont argue with people. Say something with apint. your post here seems out of place really.your opinion is welcome but please take some time to think about wht you are saying.

[JADezimar]

And Intent to murder is still a crime. Just like intent to create wmd and posses the materials is still a crime.

I think Comparing A book, To possessing the chemicals is a bit different. IN the united States if someone possessed the chemicals, Or were buying the products to build a bomb the government would be investigating am I not right ? Why did it seem like I was coming from right feild ?

What I was saying its still threatening that they had the chemicals. Why else would our government investigate even in our homeland when they had suspicion that someone is building a bomb? Becuase they consider it a potential threat. Just are those chemicals, whether there in finished wmd form or not should still set a Q in peoples heads. Just like a kid bringing a Knife to school. Who said the kitchen knife wasnt for his lunch ? But it doesnt mean He might not get into trouble.

So is the USA a criminal state? China? Russia? Israel? England? France?
If you think that these are criminal states then fine but if you say that they are not then i think that iran, iraq, lybia, sudan, N Korea, and any other state that builds wmd for the "safety of their people" are not rogue criminal states, as the USA and its current regime led by a member of a Christian cult would have you believe.

The UN has put a ban on Iraq holding these materials. I dont think the states, uk, france or other above named countries are the ones at question here.

Maddle I no you mean no disrespect. But that was offensive. If you didnt c my point, doesnt mean there wasnt one. Maybe I felt that the intelligence levels in here were high enough to understand me. Of course Saus Goes off base and uses a really shitty analogy. but he alwayz does that to me. If you were trying to get what I was saying with Suas analogy. Then plz understand where Saus STands with my opinions. He 99.9% of the time will disagree with me to disagree with me. He does it with karma too.

[shutupandshave]

I think Comparing A book, To possessing the chemicals is a bit different. IN the united States if someone possessed the chemicals, Or were buying the products to build a bomb the government would be investigating am I not right ? Why did it seem like I was coming from right feild ? Because as far as I know this chem lab consisted of 1 room with some paper entitled "making anthrax for dummies" and perhaps a test tube. There were no actual chemicals found as far as I know.

[MVB]

Initial reports I read said the opposite; that they'd actually found delivery systems, chemical agents (a weapon demands a prepared device that works and has the agents as well) AND a book and what-not; if you were attempting to read light out of it, you might catch the book for making agents, and assume that's all there was.

[shutupandshave]

I had a look on the net, and couldn't find anything confirmed... can you?

[MVB]

Even cnn.com has a blurb about it, if you read through the article.

They had pamphlets and manuals as to how to develop a variety of explosives, poisons and chemical agents; they had things like hydrochloric acid and sodium cyanide, and a bunch of other things. I would say they were -- by my judgement -- clearly agents brought in post-war by insurgents; it is frightening to think that they are individually not all that abnormal as agents; hell, I could get them for scientific research if I wanted (at least for some of the agents).

Read through the cnn.com article; it's not great, but it shows that it can be easy to drag out just the "pamphlets only" section; it has a photo of some of the various agents on the table.

They indicate no evidence they actually were making largescale chemical weapons, however they do indicate the presence of required ingredients, devices, evidence they WERE making explosive devices with the chemicals, and the presence of instructions for making a variety of poisons, chemical agents and anthrax with the ingredients present.

[shutupandshave]

I am looking for a link to the article you're referring to in this thread, and cant find it.

[MVB]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/25/iraq.main/index.html

[shutupandshave]

Bah, I have more chemicals in my cupboard.

"and they also found traces of nitrogen in there, which if the atoms are succesfully treated, could be split up into it's various sub-atomic particles, and re-assembled into a huge arse that fires nuclear weapons"

To answer your initial question - no these are not WMD at all. It is less of a lab and more or a room, and I can find no evidence of anything there that doesn't turn up in the average school.

I think that if they could they WOULD make bio/chem weapons. This laboratory did not have the means though.

They made a few homemade bombs and downloaded the Jolly Rodger from the internet. Haven't we all?

[Justice]

Is the entire war justified if we find a single quart container full of nerve gas?

This either will come up faulty on the detectors or won't be considered lethal or potent enough at all ... where are the stockpiles of WMD that Bush claimed Iraq had?

cheers, and
-=</|awesomeparty|\>=-

[/<yle]

as far as the CIA KNEW, THERE WERE STOCKPILES! HELL, THERE WERE SEALED BUNKERS FULL OF WEAPONS that DISSAPEARED!

[Justice]

key word: stockpiles.

cheers, and
-=</|awesomeparty|\>=-

[/<yle]

read my post. There were bunkers full of WMD that we went thru. they were "sealed", but whos to say that he dident carve another enterance into the "sealed" off area besides that is a "opening"

[Karmashock]

Saddam was playing shadow games... be bought stuff that could ONLY be used for bio weapons, then asked for bids on uranium refining equipment... you want to blame us for thinking a guy walking around in a cartoon burglar outfit is suspicious?... fine... I'm not losing any sleep over it.