Ukranian Election Results

[DrunkenUno]

This was posted by a guy on the eve forums.

Hey everyone, the issue of the elections in Ukraine is now echoing throughout the world and I thought I'd post my thoughts about it here with some updates etc.

#1 As reported by western and independent observers there were SERIOUS irregularities in the voting throughout the country as opposition leader's observers were shut-out of counting rooms completely and the result was always the winning vote for Yanukovich (prime-minister, ex-convict, and supported in full by Vladimir Putin, Russia's president and an ex-KGB agent).

#2 There have been several reports of Yushchenko (opposition leader) supporters getting beaten in several parts of the country.

#3 Many police officers and Ukrainian Special Forces (SBU) have admitted that members of Yanukovich's party attempted to bribe them with sums of around $300 (may not seem like much to most, but there its a lot of money, more than the average person makes in 3 months in some cases).

#4 There have been numerous reports of Spetznas (Russian Special Forces) being driven and flown into the country from the eastern part of Ukraine on orders of the Russian president.

#5 There are protests happening throughout the world. Some in Lisbon and Porto(Portugal) some in London (England) some in Toronto (Canada w00t) and many in New York and Washington DC


I ask all of you to post some comments on this and maybe write a letter to your local politicians in support of a re-vote or any measure that would ensure truthful and honest results for the elections in Ukraine.

I've spent the last couple of days protesting myself and hoping to go to Ottawa today along with over 20 busloads of people to protest there. Some of my close friends in New York are going to Washington DC tomorrow to do the same.

This is the Ukrainian people's most desperate time since the Artificial Famine of '33 when Stalin with his cronies murdered over 7 million Ukrainians. I'm asking for your support and your help. Godspeed.

[DrunkenUno]

Remember how when I said that we should consider Putin and Russia still a threat, I was kinda dismissed? Well look at this, Putin heavily backing a key nation's pro-russia, anti-west candidate...

Search for and read news articles about this, its insane.

[JADezimar]

Impressively interesting find. Its sad how many puppet nations are really out there. That We are unaware of.

[DrunkenUno]

Schaffer has window seat for Ukraine upheaval

“Absolutely remarkable,” the former congressman from Colorado terms the events in Kiev.

By Mike Soraghan
Denver Post Staff Writer


AP / Sergei Grits
Ukraine opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko walks to the Ukrainian presidential administration building in Kiev on Tuesday. Former Rep. Bob Schaffer, in Ukraine to observe the vote, said there was a risk that demonstrations could turn violent.

Washington - Former Colorado Congressman Bob Schaffer went to Ukraine to monitor an election but found himself watching a revolution.

"It's absolutely remarkable," said Schaffer. "There is a revolution taking place here. Every minute is surprising stuff."

Schaffer was speaking by phone Tuesday from the Kiev apartment of a former Coloradan he knows. He said he was monitoring the only independent television station as opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko defiantly declared himself president Tuesday and warned of "civil conflict" if he's not recognized.

Schaffer was furiously typing out updates to friends and officials on his BlackBerry wireless e-mail device, which he found to be his best connection to friends and the outside world.


But he didn't rely entirely on television and e-mail reports. He walked the streets of Kiev and found himself in a sea of orange, the color protesters wore to show support for Yushchenko. Drivers tooted their horns three times to proclaim "Yu-shchen-ko."

And he wandered through the tent city set up by protesters in the city square. And he worried that government and Russian troops might attack it.

"There's a high amount of anxiety," he said. "There's always a risk this thing could turn violent at any point in time."

When in Congress, the Fort Collins Republican made himself a leader on Ukrainian issues, traveling frequently to the former Soviet republic, co-chairing the Congressional Ukrainian Caucus and learning a little of the language.

He was better known as a conservative firebrand who left Congress in 2002 to honor his term-limits pledge. This year, he ran unsuccessfully for the GOP nomination to succeed retiring Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell.

He went to Ukraine before Sunday's vote as a monitor of the election and was scheduled to leave this morning.

He led a delegation that had to threaten wardens to get into a prison where voting was taking place.

There, he noticed the ballot box wheeled into the solitary confinement block came back with all ballots marked for the pro-Kremlin government candidate, Viktor Yanukovych.

"The fact that they even vote in prisons is troubling enough," he said. "It's highly unlikely that all the votes from people in solitary confinement would go to the people who put them in solitary confinement."

He said election fraud was even more apparent in the eastern part of the country loyal to Yanukovych.

But he said because of voter intimidation he didn't know who actually got the most votes.

"The sad thing is no one will ever know," Schaffer said. "The people of Ukraine are asserting their own judgment. There are no similar demonstrations for the other guy."

Schaffer said the U.S. has been slow to recognize problems in Ukraine and too friendly with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

"Ukrainian activists have felt somewhat abandoned," he said.

But he said that neither side wants foreign involvement.

"Because of Iraq and other situations around the world, European advice would be more welcome than American," Schaffer said. "But any advice would probably not be welcome."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Portions of Bob's Emails from yesterday...


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An Assistant Secretary of State (U.S.) told the Russians the U.S. is upset Putin prematurely congratulated Yanukovich. The Russians responded with a statement the U.S. is out of line in objecting.

The presence of Russian troops here is a very serious international incident. This causes great tension between the U.S. and Russia.

There is simply no way these soldiers should be deployed here.

There is now being constructed a second tent city in front of the guard line at the presidential admin. bldg.

The guards are now being called the "internal army." There are Ukrainians and Russians in the ranks. The Ukrainian soldiers seem sympathetic to the crowd, but the Russians who comprise the third row and others behind, look ready to fight.

...

Yushchenko is now inside the administration building. If he gets into the presidential suite, this episode should be a complete, successful peaceful revolution.

The Special Forces protecting the building are estimated to be 1,000 strong standing 20 deep. They are in formation and seem at ease.

Interesting thing, the crowd is decorating the riot shields of the officers in the front line with orange ribbons, orange carnations and little Yushchenko flags. The officers are not removing the decorations.

...

Ukrainian militia officers are pledging support for Yushchenko and are now trying to persuade the Russian special forces to do the same.

...

Whether and how to declare marshall law is being discussed.

The crowd started chanting "Svobodu ne spynyty" (Freedom will not be stopped) and "Nas bohato en nas ne poldelateh" (There's a lot of us and we can't be stopped)

...

The Russian special forces (Spetsnats) are in the building, too. Supposedly, they are negotiating with the parliamentarians.

...

Russian special forces dressed in Ukrainian Special forces uniforms are in Kyiv. Ukrainian militia have been instructed by the mayor to protect the people from the Russian troops. Ukrainian militia have established a hotline for Ukrainians to report any incidents with the Russians and pledged to protect Ukrainians.

These Russians flew into Ukraine this morning. They're now surrounding the administration buildings they say "to protect Kuchma (the outgoing president and his PM Yanukovich). Following is a chain of email messages I've been sending by blackberry. Please pass along to others.

Bob Schaffer

[Ummon]

As soon as I watched the news service 3 days ago I thought Drunk's post on the old boards had been confirmed.

[shutupandshave]

Dont we "back up" democracies by offering huge sums of money if a candidate we like gets in? Dont we sometimes send in soldiers to these countries to make sure things dont get out of hand? Beating people up? Well that's not really our style (at least we like to think).

That said though, these elections were fucked.

[Ummon]

They're going to vote a 2nd time, luckily...

[shutupandshave]

I really hope so.

[Foree]

I think that if negotiations fail there is a slight chance Ukraine will be divided on west and east

I really hope kwas will do his best out there

Also, the for the voting to be real

[shutupandshave]

Yes, I think it is VERY important for the voting to be done properly this time.

[Justice]

It seems the Ukranian parliament ALONG with the supreme court have called the election results "invalid."

It seems it's not really a good situation for the western powers, though. If Yushchenko wins (he's the pro-west guy), you'll see Ukranian membership to NATO, increased activity with the U.S. and other western countries, and a greater push for democracy with a gradual decrease from Russian power. If you see the current person win (not sure of his name ... Ya something), you'll see closed off ties with the West and greater emphasis on a Soviet-style government

If Yushchenko wins, that means another ally for the West but a very pissed-off Russia who will try to undermine his authority in any way possible to regain partial control over the political situation there. If the other candidate wins, you'll see the Western loss of Ukraine. U.S.-Russia relations will be a toss-up though -- they might stay the same, they might increase because the U.S. and Russia both realize that there's a lot at stake, or they might decrease as the U.S. gets pissed at Russian policy.

We'll see what happens.

cheers, and
-=</|awesomeparty|\>=-

[Foree]

According to Gorbachov, the eastern regions of Ukraine can declare autonomy due to the 'abuse' done by the opposition -- this has a great chance of happenning in these circumstances, as nothing shows that the Orange will give up before Yushchenko will become 'full' president.

[Justice]

Basing on Gorbachov's thoughts, the eastern regions of Ukraine can declare autonomy due to the 'abuse' done by the opposition

Are you talking about a Ukranian break-up?


cheers, and
-=</|awesomeparty|\>=-

[Foree]

It's possible but not necessary

I still believe in 'One Ukraine', though it might be very hard to convince the eastern people. Most of them don't even speak Ukrainian...

[Karmashock]

I like the russians... their idiotic bravado is going to make our work internationally much easier...

they are so so dumb...

[Justice]

Not necessarily.

They need to move towards democracy ...

Labelling them as "dumb" isn't going to be good for relations.

cheers, and
-=</|awesomeparty|\>=-

[Blazej]

The fact is that they have now a great chance to became a western and modern country in future. If Yanukowich wins they could became second Belarus. There is a talk what are the cons and pros of Ukraine joining Nato and UE. This is some westerns ppl discussion. The other discussion is on the Ukrainian streets " what we gonna do with if Yanukovich wins?", "will we ever had a chance to live like ppl should be abble to?".

[Ummon]

If the Russians want the "Russified" regions as ransom for the rest of Ukraine, I think that should be done.

I don't believe in mixing cultures, it often ends in slaughter.

Russia doesn't have the power to get back the whole of Ukraine. We don't want violence in Ukraine. A splitting is probably the best and most clever solution.

Diplomacy is the art of leaving everyone unsatisfied.

[Justice]

Splitting it would piss off the Kremlin and destroy relations.

cheers, and
-=</|awesomeparty|\>=-

[Karmashock]

relations?... they lost the cold war... they had every chance to be nice friendly partners in the world... they don't want that... they're arming our enemies and getting world power for themselves... so fuck them... The US is going to go back onto a cold war footing with them soon... we'll see how well their economy is doing when we're actively choking it again. They have a TENTH of our money... we'll just fucking see... God the Russians are dumb... they think they're so fucking smart... "oh look we have super weapons"... jackasses... sigh... we'll have to humiliate them until they collapse again...

Condi Rice IS our Russian specialist… she was groomed to deal with these morons…


Oh well… it’s nothing but good for us… with the war on terror and the Russians the Republicans are bullet proof… and we can take our fucking time with these people… sigh… we offered them everything… and they still preferred this route… bloody stupid.

[Ummon]

The people of the eastern and southern regions ARE Russians, they WANT to reunite with Russia, nobody is forcing them. And nations who have lost wars often recover and start new ones. Thinking that since they have lost they should stay quiet won't help us face any new threat they might pose.

Splitting Ukraine IS the best solution, to get rid of the mistakes of the past and start looking for the future.

Underestimating one's opponent, is always a mistake.

[Karmashock]

I'm not... I'm putting Russia back in the USSR category... that's not underestimating them... that's gearing a large amount of the US's resources to containing them.

Allowing Russia to get bigger while it's in the mod is not something I'm happy with. Russia must be kept weak until such time as it's willing to be a peaceful member of the world community.

[Justice]

I suggest you read

"Russia Road to Deeper Democracy," by Tom Bjorkman.

cheers, and
-=</|awesomeparty|\>=-

[DrunkenUno]

I suggest you read

"Russia Road to Deeper Democracy," by Tom Bjorkman.



I suggest YOU read The Perestroika Deception by Anatoliy Golitsyn

[Marb]

And now they seek shelter in the safe haven of The Netherlands..Hah!
*Proud*.

[Karmashock]

why are you holding a piece of tissue paper over your head and chanting? :wtf: