Absolutely Disgusting.

[DrunkenUno]

http://iraqwarnews.net/blogivorycoast.jpg
Last Update: Sunday, November 14, 2004. 9:43am (AEDT)

Ivory Coast accuses France of shooting civilians
By Africa correspondent Sally Sara

The Government of the Ivory Coast is planning to take legal action against French troops accused of shooting civilians.

The Ivorian Government is taking its case to the International Court of Justice.

Ivory Coast accused French troops of killing up to 60 people during an anti-French demonstration in the commercial capital, Abidjan, last week.

Human Rights Minister Victorine Wodie says the perpetrators must be punished.

But France says its soldiers were not responsible for the killings.

The Ivorian Government says it is preparing to lodge its case with the International Court of Justice.

It is also seeking compensation from France for the destruction of its air force.

French troops blew up several Ivorian fighter aircraft and helicopters after nine French peacekeepers were killed in an air raid in the rebel city of Bouake.

West African leaders will hold emergency talks in Nigeria today to discuss the crisis in Ivory Coast.

More than 4,000 foreigners have been evacuated from the country, with civilians and United Nations staff being flown from Abidjan.

French patrols are still looking for foreigners who may be hiding in their homes.

The French military is coordinating the evacuation in Ivory Coast and other nations are also sending aircraft to the international airport in Abidjan.

The Royal Air Force has evacuated more than 200 British nationals to nearby Ghana.

The foreigners were forced to flee after more than five days of violent demonstrations and looting.

Africa Union chairman Nigerian President Olusegun Obsanjo is hosting the talks.

But France says its soldiers were not responsible for the killings.

Judge for yourselves. This video makes it pretty clear.

http://radioci.embaci.com/englishdownload/frenchsoldiershootingcivilians1.mpg

Edit: Long ass video, like 90 megs or something.

[DrunkenUno]

If this doesn't call for some response or investigation by the International court or UN, I don't know what does. But oh, wait, the EU controls the International Court, and the UN is too anti-US right now to concentrate on France.

If the US kills ONE of the THOUSANDS OF JIHADIS in Iraq, theres outrage. And heres France killing dozens of innocent protestors in cold blood.

FUCK France.

[JADezimar]

More like fuck the Un and the Fascists Tendancies that euro Has displayed throughout the years.

[Larsson7]

I was going to post about how many innocent Iraqui civilians lie dead at the hands of the US military and then decided not to.

Oh wait.... I did :mad:

[Ummon]

France is a rogue nation, believe me. I love French culture, literature, wine and food, but the amount of cowardice and double-morals they have shown in this and many other occasions is just appalling.

France is a harbour for anti-semitism, muslim extremism, communist terrorism and many other dangerous trends of the modern world, yet manages to be an aggressive and intrusive regional power when its own interst requires it.

Let's hope they change course in time.

[Foree]

Pathetic...

[JADezimar]

Again angel, In most cases The deaths in Iraq happen quite differently. And its a whole different scenario, Again you cant compare apples and oranges. YOu fascists IRA supporter.

[DrunkenUno]

I was going to post about how many innocent Iraqui civilians lie dead at the hands of the US military and then decided not to.

Oh wait.... I did :mad:

Has the US fired lethal weapons into groups of innocent protesters?

[JADezimar]

I know Great Britain has the almighty of fascists euro nations. Prior to the revo war. But then again Probalby have since If i researched enough.

[Larsson7]

Has the US fired lethal weapons into groups of innocent protesters?

Does it really matter how innocent civilians are killed?

Killing innocent people is shitty however it happens.

[Larsson7]

I know Great Britain has the almighty of fascists euro nations. Prior to the revo war. But then again Probalby have since If i researched enough.

English much?

[Karmashock]

Does it really matter how innocent civilians are killed?

Killing innocent people is shitty however it happens.
Depends on what your intention is... If accidently kill 5 people with my car... that's man slaughter... or maybe nothing... but probably man slaughter..

If I kill 5 people on purpose, then it's murder.

In the case of the US and Iraq I'd say nothing as we're doing our best to avoid them... But we'll accept manslaughter if the French go down for Murder... I mean... why not?... we'll get 15 years and jail and France will get LIFE! :D

[JADezimar]

I didn't even read your post Karma.

Wow incredibly Low intelligence response.


Does it really matter how innocent civilians are killed?

Killing innocent people is shitty however it happens.

this has been explained to you time and time again. But you yet again refuse to remember.

AND ON karma's statement. The uk will get life too :)

[Karmashock]

Leave the UK alone... they're brothers... we might get in little fights now and again... but at the end of the day we're family.

[JADezimar]

Bah racists idiots like angel come from there.

[Karmashock]

http://www.itv.com/news/britain_951904.html


Hush... they're in this too and should be supported... we have as many tards in the US. ;)

Don't blame them for theirs... they can't help it.

[JADezimar]

Actually I knew most of this. They should be thinking us for being the ones to get attacked first. So they had a clue of what to look for and be alert.

[Shackled Phoenix]

Does it really matter how innocent civilians are killed?

Killing innocent people is shitty however it happens.


True enough, except in the Iraq case most civilian deaths are due to the militants using civilian's as cover. The soldiers do attempt to not kill the civilians but in obviously many cases we have not been sucessful. Yes we have made mistakes and killed civilians thinking they were militants. It happens in every war like the one we are fighting. But the US is NOT killing unarmed protestors.

[/<yle]

We dont make a point of shooting those who disagree with us peacefully

[DrunkenUno]

Bah racists idiots like angel come from there.

You are a fucking idiot and I don't know how you were let into TLSC.

[JADezimar]

Thx drunken, you sweetheart. Go read all angels posts and c how biast and racists his ass is.

[DrunkenUno]

Thx drunken, you sweetheart. Go read all angels posts and c how biast and racists his ass is.

"thx"? "c"? What are you a 13 year old girl? Or is it just too hard for you to type out "THANKS" and "SEE" using only 1 hand? Since your other one is up your ass fisting yourself?

You DONT fucking talk to Angel that way.

[JADezimar]

Ill talk to a dumbass racist angel that way anytime i want to. You tell him not to talk to americans the way that he does then. Hes went as far as saying there worthless. And if you got a problem with my abbreviations. Thats your deal. Go Turn around im tired of sticking it in your ass.

[Foree]

Racism is about skin color not nations so I don't see where Angel acted like a racist :/

I wouldn't even think of him like of a chauvinist which he obviously isn't.

[JADezimar]

Race

n. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race

Ahhh and angels hatred to the states as a whole would be Can I hear it ?

Race

n. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race

[Larsson7]

"thx"? "c"? What are you a 13 year old girl? Or is it just too hard for you to type out "THANKS" and "SEE" using only 1 hand? Since your other one is up your ass fisting yourself?

You DONT fucking talk to Angel that way.


<3

[Ummon]

Yes JAD, if not because we tell you not to, because it's cool to respect people's opinions, etc. read to the left of Angel's posts that little writing, "Pillar of the command" and stop attacking him. You're not going to be liked that way.

Besides, respect for your debate opponent's opinions is the only rule of discussion.

[DrunkenUno]

<3


ur avatar is gayz0r as hell.

Oh PS... come back to eve so you can come pirate with me and your best friend Bast.

[DrunkenUno]

Race

n. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race

Ahhh and angels hatred to the states as a whole would be Can I hear it ?

Race

n. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race

Way to not post THE NUMBER ONE DEFINITION:

race1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rs)
n.
A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.

So I guess all americans are a distint group with similar genetically transmitted physical characteristics?

Blacks=mexicans=whites=indians=etc=etc=etc?

God, you're even stupider than I thought.

[Foree]

it's kawaii as hell

Drunk, how much's the monthly pay for eve atm?

So I guess all americans are a distint group with similar genetically transmitted physical characteristics?

Blacks=mexicans=whites=indians=etc=etc=etc?

God, you're even stupider than I thought.cs?

Just... leave him alone with such understanding :lala:

[Larsson7]

Race

n. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race

Ahhh and angels hatred to the states as a whole would be Can I hear it ?

Race

n. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race

JAD,

Please read the following carefully and digest it before you reply.

I do not hate Americans and this is you stating an opinion as opposed to fact!

I think it is essential that any military superpower be questioned on its actions as we run the risk of creating problems on a Global scale if this is not done.

Dont you imagine for one minute that Russia, France, China, India (among others) watch what happens with the US and Iraq and look for the precedent that will allow them to do the same thing to Georgia, Ivory Coast, Taiwan or Pakistan? If you are going to invade a country, for whatever reason, you have to appreciate that the eyes of the world will watch and judge.

If other countries see that no one is prepared to question them if they invade another country - what is to stop bigger fish picking out all the little fish - for whatever reason?

You will invariably come back and tell me that the US is "removing a dictator" or "Bringing democracy". You do need to remember that one mans democracy is another mans tyranny.

Do you really expect, JAD, that the whole world should sit back, be thankful and say nothing? It really does not work that way.

As for my "Anti Americanism" - I will be staying in Twenty Nine Palms on January 7th for two weeks with a Commander from the US Navy!

For those of you don't know - Twenty Nine Palms is the desert training base for the US Marines and, all troops who serve in Iraq go there for training prior to deployment.

Oh the irony :lol:

[shutupandshave]

JAD, you have been far more racist than Angel...

[Karmashock]

I haven't seen anything racist here besides some suggestion at some point that Iraqis are 'fit' for democracy... aside from that there has been no racism.

[shutupandshave]

Please let that be a joke.


Incidentally, I would call a country a race sometimes. The German race, the English Race, the American Race. I would also call Europeans a race and the Africans a race.

[MVB]

Waddaya think about Theresa Heinz-Kerry calling herself an African American?

[shutupandshave]

Very little, I dont know much about her, except she has a huge overbite

[MVB]

She cost her husband the election, IMO.

She was born in Africa, and raised for a while there, whereupon she moved to the United States, inhereted the Heinz fortune, became a senator, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Anyway, she's certainly an American by all rights, and in America the term "African-American" is understood to refer to a Black person. She has more direct connection to Africa than 99% of the African Americans in this nation, whose connection is only faintly memorable from literally hundreds of years ago. In fact, most African Americans have had family in America far longer than most caucasian Americans.

Ms. Kerry came out and vocally proclaimed herself an African-American, saying that she understood other African-Americans, etc.

Other little exploits of hers are too numerous to count, but at one point she stated that Laura Bush (president's wife) did not really understand the working women, being that she never had a real job herself, and so really didn't have the same kind of value that a working woman like Ms. Kerry might have.

Well, of course this pissed the shit out of every house mom in America, many of whom I knew were pro-Kerry until that statement, and literally changed their vote simply b/c they "hated Ms. Kerry worse than Mr. Bush," and you can understand when Mr. Kerry endorses his wife.

Anyway, turns out Laura Bush was a school teacher, and quite the honored one, for over a decade, carrying a full-time, "real working woman's" job. She also has done some other stuff, but anyway, point being she was wrong as well.

There you have some background on her now.

[shutupandshave]

She sounds pretty nasty...
What good points does she have?

[MVB]

I'm unaware. She's apparently an alcoholic too.

Everybody has a good side, though, so I'm sure she has her fair share.

She was once married to one of Kerry's most adamant Republican opponents, a fellow senator. He died in a peculiar plane accident. Kerry swept up the widowbait.

[shutupandshave]

http://www.dvmx.com/kerrys2.jpg
http://hallphoto.lab.nu/albums/SuperMonday/IMG_2627.sized.jpg
She doesn't look very african-american

[MVB]

That's the whole point. Is she African-American b/c she was born there and has more claim to an African heritage than most Black people, or is she plain old American b/c you apparently can't be African-American if you're white?

[Ummon]

Judging from the nature of this African-American thing, I guess she is a Stupid-American. She was born stupid, but she's an american too.

Excuse the pun.

[shutupandshave]

I think in her position, she is American.

If she were someone off the street, she would be welcome to be African American.

What she SHOULD have said was "I am african american, but not the usual kind" (but said in a good way)

[Ummon]

African-Americans are proud of their heritage. That statement was bound to hurt their feelings. Although the more british-humour-filled version Suas has proposed, would have surely not produced that effect, I concur.

[JADezimar]

race1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rs)
n.
A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.

So I guess all americans are a distint group with similar genetically transmitted physical characteristics?

Blacks=mexicans=whites=indians=etc=etc=etc?

God, you're even stupider than I thought.

Obviously you used Dictionary.com Drunken. But you were so itchy to find that Definition that you didnt read the next one down. The ONE I USED. You can use either definition, So if 1 definition fits the term, Then the term is being used properly. Either your extremly stupid drunken or you were trying to manipulate it. Like an unhonest boy.

JAD, you have been far more racist than Angel...

My only racist comments are to point out how I feel about angel, And how a few others do to, But dont want to openly call angel racists. Cuase you guyz will throw that shit out about us getting upset over an opinion. I obviously havnt Been this way at you saus, Cuase you argue informatively and try to keep your feelings repressed outta your arguments to a certain extent. Must I find the thread where I asked Angel why he would go to every length to defend nations even like china to deface the states?

His answer was, Because I hate the United States. You dont think comments like the american dollar is a POS isnt a comment do to his hatred ?

For those of you don't know - Twenty Nine Palms is the desert training base for the US Marines and, all troops who serve in Iraq go there for training prior to deployment.


You can claim whatever you want. You've been claiming through-out these threads that in the near future you plan to go to L.a., haiwii or whatever 29 palms etc etc. hmmmmmmm I dont know Maybe its true maybe its not. 29 palms is a shitty part of the states though what brings you there ? Its definitely not a vacation :p. And it still dont take back that you said you hated the states at one point in the other thread. And the manner of your posts still come down from deep down feelings of hatred. I dont mind opinions but extremely biast ones that flat out tell me im a moron for mine is wrong. No one remembers angel doing this of course? No one remembers Angel calling me names of course ?

[shutupandshave]

My only racist comments are to point out how I feel about angel
If you had not made the same comments about me, I might have been inclined to take that comment with a little less salt.

Either your extremly stupid drunken or you were trying to manipulate it.
One thing drunk is not - is stupid. I've not always got along with him, in fact we've had blazing rows in the past - however I've never thought him stupid. "IF" he manipulated the facts, he only did so in exactly the same way you did, to demonstrate the fact you just pointed out.

[MVB]

I see the JAD-Angel war, which is laced with idiocy, and I see the suas-karma war, which is laced with insanity.

Solution?

HOO, WAR, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR? ABSOUTELY NOTHIN!

[JADezimar]

One thing drunk is not - is stupid. I've not always got along with him, in fact we've had blazing rows in the past - however I've never thought him stupid. "IF" he manipulated the facts, he only did so in exactly the same way you did, to demonstrate the fact you just pointed out.

I didnt manipulate the facts of the Definitions. I merely stated the 1 definition I needed. It doesnt matter if I posted both definitions or not. When using a word correctly you only have to use 1 of the definitions in the context of which your speaking. I.E Hitler constantly thought the German Race was superior to all others. Do they really look different than the commen white person ? Accross many mainly white people. Do they ?

Thats my example. I wasnt minipulating drunken was. I think its funny you can defend him and say hes not stupid (in which I know hes not) But you dont care to defend me. Why saus? Is it becuase IM american saus ? Is it cuase I have different opinions saus? Is that why its ok to bash on me saus ?

[shutupandshave]

I think its funny you can defend him and say hes not stupid (in which I know hes not)
I hate to say it, but you've just owned yourself there.

Drunk is American too - so why would I defend him and not you - especially as I have had a lot more arguments and disagreements with him than you? Because I believed he was right.

I objected you to saying he manipulated the definition by giving one that supported his argument... as it is exactly what you did.

Incidently - I guess it is irrelevant to you that I actually DID defend you in the other thread, saying that "I" would also use America as a race. Good job, I will be sure not to bother next time.

[JADezimar]

I objected you to saying he manipulated the definition by giving one that supported his argument... as it is exactly what you did.

Again I repeat I didnt Manipulate this. I used a definition. That fits. If one definition fits from the word than I was using it correctly. Drunken used the other definition like if it cancelled mine out or something. That doesnt work I do not know of any words that have definitions that contradict themselves.

Incidently - I guess it is irrelevant to you that I actually DID defend you in the other thread, saying that "I" would also use America as a race. Good job, I will be sure not to bother next time.

As for this I havnt seen it. But I apologize on that accord. But it still dont Account for all the things that you do defend drunken and angel for but attack me for doing back.

I think it hit you a little closer to home when I did lash out at the Uk. And Maybe now you should realize how I felt.

[shutupandshave]

You lashing out at the UK doesn't bother me if it's backed up with reason and argument.

I think it accounts for when I defend Angel and Drunk perfectly. No matter what awful names you call me, or anyone else calls me - I will always try and say what I believe to be true... or not true. That's the way I am. I defended (amongst other things) drunk's "stupidity" which oddly enough you yourself said he was not... which begs the question - WHY THE HELL DID YOU CALL HIM STUPID THEN?

I could (And would be more than willing) to tell you many many awful things that the UK has done. That doesn't make me unpatriotic, that makes me level-headed.

[DrunkenUno]

I see the JAD-Angel war, which is laced with idiocy, and I see the suas-karma war, which is laced with insanity.

Solution?

HOO, WAR, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR? ABSOUTELY NOTHIN!

Say it again HUH

[shutupandshave]

The Iraqi's apparently... although I'd like to check with the 15,000 dead civilians as to how they feel about it...

"hands up if you support the war folks"

what - no hands?

[JADezimar]

HOw about check with the estimated 300,000 that Sadaam Killed ? Why did I call drunk stupid cuase he was calling me names pretty simple. But I decided to correct myself to raise myself beyond that level.

I defended (amongst other things) drunk's "stupidity"

but why would you defend stupidity ?

[shutupandshave]

HOW AM I DEFENDING STUPIDITY - YOU YOURSELF SAID DRUNK WASN'T STUPID.

FOR FUCKS SAKE

[Larsson7]

HOw about check with the estimated 300,000 that Sadaam Killed ? Why did I call drunk stupid cuase he was calling me names pretty simple. But I decided to correct myself to raise myself beyond that level.



but why would you defend stupidity ?

You really are fucking cockknocker.

Didnt you see the stupidity in inverted commas?

Go and fucking kill yourself asap :freak:

[JADezimar]

uh huh and you dare to say youll have me suspended deleted for the same type of words lol Angel makes you such a hypocrite. And to Saus.

HOW AM I DEFENDING STUPIDITY - YOU YOURSELF SAID DRUNK WASN'T STUPID.

FOR FUCKS SAKE

Quote:
I defended (amongst other things) drunk's "stupidity"

[Larsson7]

uh huh and you dare to say youll have me suspended deleted for the same type of words lol. Angel and to Saus.

Ok - look closely at what suas wrote - He had STUPIDITY in inverted commas indicating Sarcasm.

Please, Please read the fucking posts.

[JADezimar]

No response to what I said to you angel?

[Magus]

I almost hate to get involved in this.

First thing: This is Angel's forum. Respect him, or pay for your goddamn bandwidth.

Second thing: Unless you are refering to posts in other threads, and if so, please link them, the closest thing Angel has said to 'racism' is that thousands of Iraqi civilians are dead at the metaphorical hands of the American Military. Thats not racism, thats fact. If I say that blacks commit crimes, am I racist? Only if I claim that no one else does.

Third thing: This really pissed me off. You mention that Angel supports the IRA. Prove it. Supporting their cause is far, far different from supporting their means. Who is right, Israel or Palestine? Whichever you say, I can counter by saying you condone launching rockets into domestic sectors or suicide bombings.

Forth thing: Literacy. Look that one up on Dictionary.com.

[JADezimar]

Forth thing: Literacy. Look that one up on Dictionary.com.

Really, This makes you superior in some way ? You might want to learn how to spell fourth why your at it ? :p

First thing: This is Angel's forum. Respect him, or pay for your goddamn bandwidth

So If I payed for this forum Id have the right to say whatever I wanted in a free open discussion about politics that its known to get harry about? Thats asking alot. What ever happened to freedom of speech.

Second thing: Unless you are refering to posts in other threads, and if so, please link them, the closest thing Angel has said to 'racism' is that thousands of Iraqi civilians are dead at the metaphorical hands of the American Military. Thats not racism, thats fact. If I say that blacks commit crimes, am I racist? Only if I claim that no one else does.

Go read through threads like federal deficit. Ill try to find other threads. It started off as both of us just getting a bit aggressive with eachother. Then us proving points back and forth and flared to this.

Third thing: This really pissed me off. You mention that Angel supports the IRA. Prove it. Supporting their cause is far, far different from supporting their means. Who is right, Israel or Palestine? Whichever you say, I can counter by saying you condone launching rockets into domestic sectors or suicide bombings.

Ill find you the area where this was brought up.

Im not just openly making claims here. It was all brought through discussion. In previous threads.

[Larsson7]

I almost hate to get involved in this.

First thing: This is Angel's forum. Respect him, or pay for your goddamn bandwidth.

Second thing: Unless you are refering to posts in other threads, and if so, please link them, the closest thing Angel has said to 'racism' is that thousands of Iraqi civilians are dead at the metaphorical hands of the American Military. Thats not racism, thats fact. If I say that blacks commit crimes, am I racist? Only if I claim that no one else does.

Third thing: This really pissed me off. You mention that Angel supports the IRA. Prove it. Supporting their cause is far, far different from supporting their means. Who is right, Israel or Palestine? Whichever you say, I can counter by saying you condone launching rockets into domestic sectors or suicide bombings.

Forth thing: Literacy. Look that one up on Dictionary.com.


I love Magus because he is fucking as badass as it gets!

These are NOT my forums - They belong to TLSC and MVB and Stealth granted me Admin status and I promised I would not abuse the privilige.

I will not ban or modify the posts of JAD under any circumstance.

JAD is accusing me of things that are blatanly untrue and that is one thing I will refer to the officers, like you Magus, to decide on.

This is why we have Officers and Senior Officers. I do NOT expect or want the Officers to take my view on every or any subject - that would be as ghey as get out.

I do, however, take exception if an argument is distorted and turned into a lie by a member or non member.

We do not have many rules here, however, we do not spew lies about each other to make a point.

[JADezimar]

I think several times members have attacked eachother gotten aggressive. Yet Angel seems to get so anal retentive about it, (cause I think hes pretty butt hurt) That he makes a bigger deal about it making other members speak up. This is rediculous.

If I played mr. Innocent. And complained about angels abuse every minute would you guyz be defending me? Cuase look at the abuse that drunk gave. Look at the abuse Karma and Saus gave to eachother. Etc Etc. Look at Dj's occasional abuse. Look at the constant bashing of Demon by the whole tlsc. This is a commen thing. To single me out is wrong is it not ?

[Larsson7]

I think several times members have attacked eachother gotten aggressive. Yet Angel seems to get so anal retentive about it, (cause I think hes pretty butt hurt) That he makes a bigger deal about it making other members speak up. This is rediculous.

There is no doubt that other members have attacked each other - that is A_OK.

What is not OK is when you start to tell me that I am an IRA supporter or Anti American and state it as fact when it is YOUR OPINION.

Stealth, MVB, Drunk, Lard, Magus, SirPsycho and many others who ARE American have not backed up your claims.

You are expressing an opinion as fact which is demeaning as it paints me as a supporter of terrorism which I am not.

Edit - I am not trying to pick on you , JAD.

I am more than happy to debate topical issues with you, however, I would appreciate it if you would refrain from statin your opinion on people as fact.

That crosses the line from deabte to defemataion which is not justified..

[JADezimar]

Im not lying Im stating my personal opinoin just like your personal opinion about the states Angel. Nothing More.

Your acting like a whiny 13 year old Chick, That just got dumped by her boyfriend.

I am not the only one that has stated Angel is completely biast. And so why would I be lying? When I personally think Angel is racist ?

Angel in a posts stated I was A Propaganda Fed drone. That would let bush fuck my wife and stick his dick in my ass and I would still vote him. Isnt that his opinion :p

[Larsson7]

Im not lying Im stating my personal opinoin just like your personal opinion about the states Angel. Nothing More.

Your acting like a whiny 13 year old Chick, That just got dumped by her boyfriend.

I am not the only one that has stated Angel is completely biast. And so why would I be lying? When I personally think Angel is racist ?

That is an opinion and that is fine!

If you think I am a 13 year old girl (which I am not) or if you think I was dumped by my boyfriend( also not true, thankfully) - That is your opinionj, however, it is not fact!

You are constantly spouting misinformation which is totally made up in your own head.

I could add an edit to all of my posts that you are a convicted pedo, however, that would be my OPINION and not FACT!

You spout your opinions as fact which is too dangerous.

[Magus]

http://www.tlsconline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7169&postcount=130

To quote the relevant part in the post

"I do not support the IRA. I do not believe that the killing of innocents by anyone can further the cause of any nation."

In the thread you refered me to, I'll keep looking.


p.s.
Now while the rules of civility may be laxed in this subforum, some things go too far, such as in the quote at the top of the linked post. While I have seen many people be called fucking morons and other interesting things like that, this goes a wee bit beyond the line. Especially knowing several gay and lesbian friends. Tone it down.

[JADezimar]

Ive argued my opinions. Just like you argue your opinions. YOu state your opinoins like there fact also Angel. Why do you continue to think you are Anything above me, is well beyond me.

[JADezimar]

Originally Posted by JADezimar
So you realize your country has problems and isnt absolutely correct either. Shouldnt you be worried about your own problems and not ours? But you understand why, The Ira Takes up arms against the british is it? Can I say fascists=Taking the country by force lolz



Can you say "Occupied country fighting for its own freedom and independence"?

You are aware that the UK invaded Ireland and planted its own people there? You are, or should be, aware that any occupied country is going to fight for its own freedom?

Explain to me how Irishmen and women taking up arms to fight for freedom from an invading force is fascism?

[Larsson7]

Ive argued my opinions. Just like you argue your opinions. YOu state your opinoins like there fact also Angel. Why do you continue to think you are Anything above me, is well beyond me.

Are you missing the point deliberately?

I have zero objection to you expessing your opinion - That is what this forum is for.

What this forum is NOT for is for me to say that suas rapes his neighbours or that JAD is a pedo or Drunk likes to fuck rats up the ass.

I cannot just ASSUME an opinion and express it to be true without some sort of lucid and tangiable proof.

You have accused me of being Pro IRA because I disagree with the US invasion of Iraq!

You accuse me of being Anti American - despite the fact I have many US online and Real Life friends.


Pleases continue to argue your point of view, however, not at the expense of blatantly lying about someone.

[JADezimar]

have zero objection to you expessing your opinion - That is what this forum is for.

What this forum is NOT for is for me to say that suas rapes his neighbours or that JAD is a pedo or Drunk likes to fuck rats up the ass.

Angel in a posts stated I was A Propaganda Fed drone. That would let bush fuck my wife and stick his dick in my ass and I would still vote him.

What do you call that angel ?

[Magus]

3rd point in first post stands.

[Larsson7]

Originally Posted by JADezimar
So you realize your country has problems and isnt absolutely correct either. Shouldnt you be worried about your own problems and not ours? But you understand why, The Ira Takes up arms against the british is it? Can I say fascists=Taking the country by force lolz
You make me want to cry :(

Do you think Britain invaded Ireland to free it from tyranny? Do you know ANYTHING about Irish history?

[JADezimar]

My point on being singled out still stands. Why isnt Angel Being questioned about all the blatant attacks on my identity o0

[JADezimar]

You make me want to cry

Do you think Britain invaded Ireland to free it from tyranny? Do you know ANYTHING about Irish history?

So you do sympathize with the IRA, thats my whole point!

[Magus]

Did you read the 3rd point I made? Supporting their cause does not imply supporting their means!

And answer my question: Israel or Palestine. Prepare for a similar accusation once you do.

Also, I noticed you changed "supported" to "sympathized." There is a huge difference between them.

[JADezimar]

And answer my question: Israel or Palestine. Prepare for a similar accusation once you do.

I dont have to pick one there both in the wrong if you really dig up there history. I read the threads on there history already.

Also, I noticed you changed "supported" to "sympathized." There is a huge difference between them.

Though different, they are also similiar. Its how you want to view it.

Did you read the 3rd point I made? Supporting their cause does not imply supporting their means!

Angel Agressively defends the Iraqi terrorists as "Freedom Fighters" There means being that of no differently than the IRA, If he has no problem with the way they do it then why would he with the IRA. It was argued in another thread aggressively What the difference between terrorrists and freedom fighter was.

Also another comparison and reason I started reasoning this was. Angel said that Iraq doesnt support the united states being there. We stated how so he stated the freedom fighters. We stated they werent freedom fighters etc. So I assume cuase the IRA "freedom fighters" doesnt want brittain in ireland then, Angel being a citizen of ireland does not want them there either. This would make him a supporter of the IRA.

[Magus]

Hm, a unique one. Then lets look at it in the third person. A vast majority of the American population "sympathizes" with one side or the other. Are they all contemptable "supporters" of the Palestian suicide bombers or the Israeli soldiers? (or, if you prefer, the ones ordering the soldiers)

Counter-Edit: Because he is an Irishman who sympathizes with the IRA's cause he supports them? And should he be punished as a terrorist collaborator?

[JADezimar]

Hm, a unique one. Then lets look at it in the third person. A vast majority of the American population "sympathizes" with one side or the other. Are they all contemptable "supporters" of the Palestian suicide bombers or the Israeli soldiers? (or, if you prefer, the ones ordering the soldiers)

Again not a fair ideology. IT was angel that said that just cuase there were some terrorists fighting back in Iraq, Iraq didnt want us there. not vice versa. Again it wasnt my point of view that I agreed with that the notion of IRA representing ireland. nor the iraqi terrorists representing Iraq. IT was Angels Idea that the terrorists represented the Iraqis. And I used IRA as a comparison to show him.

[Magus]

Ideology? Do you mean Analogy?

Regardless, I fail to see the relevance. Could you rephrase that?

[JADezimar]

Simple. Angel Said the Iraq's Terrorists represented Iraq's population that they did not want the U.S. there. I so asked so Ireland doesnt want brittain there. Cuase the IRA must represent all of Ireland ?

(Magus You are pretty clever I must admitt o0)

If the Iraqi terrorists represent all of Iraq, Then the IRA must represent all of Ireland. Angel lives in Ireland. So the IRA represents him. According to Angels ideology.

[JADezimar]

Counter-Edit: Because he is an Irishman who sympathizes with the IRA's cause he supports them? And should he be punished as a terrorist collaborator?

Does a Racists man Get thrown in prison in the United States for Stating he hates. Nope Mere words dont cuase you to serve time.

[Magus]

Well, we all know how much we have purged discrimination from America. Not claiming it's right, just stating. For example, if said Racist gave money to the KKK or another white supremacist group, he wont serve time either. If I give money to Al-Qaeda... well, I get to take an extended vacation.

And I see your point about the extension of a country's will. I also believe that Angel's view on this is flawed, or not completely expressed. However, keep this in mind:
"I do not support the IRA. I do not believe that the killing of innocents by anyone can further the cause of any nation."
With this said, you have no right to say as such. Also, do you hold the same "Ideology" (I swear thats the wrong word, but cant think of what it is. Maybe Philosophy) as Angel? If not, do not accuse him through that lens.

[JADezimar]

I do not support the IRA. I do not believe that the killing of innocents by anyone can further the cause of any nation."
With this said, you have no right to say as such. Also, do you hold the same "Ideology

Ive stated Im not lying only stating an opinion. Angel says I am lying. Maybe he shoould be corrected for this. He also called me a cocksucker does he know this is true ?

Also, do you hold the same "Ideology" (I swear thats the wrong word, but cant think of what it is. Maybe Philosophy) as Angel? If not, do not accuse him through that lens.

I dont hold that Ideology I the whole time have been trying to show him why, exactly why just cuase some terrorists are fighting in Iraq why they dont represent the IRaqi people. Thats when he goes as far as saying well Brittain Invaded Ireland yatta yatta blah blah. That would lead me to beleive that He is in support of the IRA. He doesnt want to give on either cuaes he knows if he gives to 1 then he has admitted he was wrong on either A. NOt supporting the IRA. Or B. that his accustations that the U.S wasnt wanted in Iraq is wrong.

I am not setting myself above his standard, I am using his lense to show him the flaw of it. No more No less.

[Magus]

And it is your right to tell him why you think he is wrong, through your interpretation of his logic. It is not your right to tell him that he supports terrorism. It is your right to tell him why you think a viewpoint taken by him is racist. It is not your right to call him a Racist.

Have I made the difference clear enough?

[JADezimar]

http://www.tlsconline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9771#post9771

[shutupandshave]

Does a Racists man Get thrown in prison in the United States for Stating he hates. Nope Mere words dont cuase you to serve time.
Yes he can be under the new anti-freedom act (or whatever it's called).

Anyway, I find it very difficult to quantify the argument that "everything I say is my opinion because I said it" and "you are wrong, because of X,Y,Z" which I see happening on all kinds of boards.

I would not like the job of having to tell when someone is giving an opinion and someone is giving fact.

However, there are times when opinion is wrong. For example if Angel said "It is my opinion that Suas has purple hair" then he would be wrong. It may be his opinion, but he is still completely and utterly wrong. However, when someone says "It is my opinion that the US displays facist tendancies" it is not possible to say he is wrong. Because of the sheer volume of evidence and the amount of different actions that the US has taken, both as a nation and individually (and it COULD be argued that an individual is representing it's country) the US (and any other country) could be argued to be left wing, right wing, upwing, downwing, facist, communist, evil, good.

When these opinions are backed up with fact, then you cant say "it is not true" you could say that it is not relevant... for example, if I argued that there have been American terrorists against Americans you could perhaps reply with "yeah okay, so 1 person in the US bombed a tonne of people, I admit then that there have been US terrorists that have attacked americans (at least one) but that does not make the US a terrorist nation".

People play with words here, and there are a lot of subtleties. I am sure I dont understand most of them, however it seems that a lot of other people miss them too.

For example... "the US has a history of violence and Genocide" could be interpreted as "Americans are all murderers" or "Americans have been involved in attacks against genocidal dictators throughout it's history".... and sometimes people will be deliberately vague to catch someone out. It's a test of wits, and there should never be violence in the words... but then people should also admit when they are wrong.

Sorry for the lecture.

[MVB]

A test of wits has no place, in my opinion, in an open-minded debate. It is a sign of people attempting to "win," rather than a sign of people approaching an argument with a mind open to change, and with a desire to simply see the facts of things, and not just "win" due to superior "wits."

[TFL Maddie]

OK let me say this once so everyone can lose the race, religion, nationality, and any other distinctive or exclusive tool you would like to use. Humans do bad things. Humans do good things.

Any psychologist would tell you that people placed in positions of power where other people are dehumanized, as in prison, will treat these people who they perceive to be less equal badly. Stanford Univ did a study on this with college students. I am not here to make excuses for anyone who kills someone else for any reason other than selfdefense but I am here to say that human nature is the same as animal nature. Iraq, Iran, Sudan, Rwanda, Ivory Coast, USA (1492 to 1960s) I was not there. You were not there. We cannot understand the reasons for the killings, atrocities, and other forms of distasteful behavior. You and the rest of the world want to judge people for their actions. You were not there and while what they did was distasteful many of you, placed in the same circumstances, might act the same.

Imagine that you are put in a position of power. You can do as you like and no one will say a word. You have complete power. Many would be corrupted. I do not think that what happened then, now, or in the future was good but history is there to learn from. Make sure that someday when humanity goes into space they dont land on a planet somewhere and enslave a native race.

[JADezimar]

However, there are times when opinion is wrong. For example if Angel said "It is my opinion that Suas has purple hair" then he would be wrong. It may be his opinion, but he is still completely and utterly wrong.

I think you are purple period..... I dont think your from this world :P

[JADezimar]

It is my opinion that the US displays facist tendancies" it is not possible to say he is wrong. Because of the sheer volume of evidence and the amount of different actions that the US has taken, both as a nation and individually (and it COULD be argued that an individual is representing it's country) the US (and any other country) could be argued to be left wing, right wing, upwing, downwing, facist, communist, evil, good.

When these opinions are backed up with fact, then you cant say "it is not true" you could say that it is not relevant... for example, if I argued that there have been American terrorists against Americans you could perhaps reply with "yeah okay, so 1 person in the US bombed a tonne of people, I admit then that there have been US terrorists that have attacked americans (at least one) but that does not make the US a terrorist nation".

The thing that upsets me about this saus, Is europe, uk, france it doesnt matter where you come from. Your nation has done similiar things in its history. Great Brittain has a very nasty history. If you want to get into it. My point it I know the states does wrong. I know everyone makes mistakes though. And when you point a finger, You Give the impression that you are better, You give the impression as if you have never done no wrong. You tell us we have no right to point fingers in Iraq or the middle-east and do what not. When your nations have done simliar things and your currently pointing fingers at the States. How does that work ?

[shutupandshave]

the thing that upsets me about this JDA, is that I said exactly what you are complaining about me not saying.

I have said NUMEROUS times that the UK has done bad things. The difference is - I dont claim the UK is perfect. I dont respond to people pointing out faults in the UK by insulting them, they're country, they're political beliefs and all the other things you attack me for whenever I make an observation about the US.

I have no problem with the US pointing fingers. I object to the US (and the UK) marching into a country and killing people. I object to many of the bad things the US and the UK have done in the past, however that is then, and this is now. I am not going to start campaigning against British Concentration camps during the war. I am going to campaign about the things that are going wrong now.

Once again you have accused me of doing something I have not done.

[TFL Maddie]

SUAS is right. He said that his country has done nasty things.
I dont think any nation can say that they have not. Every nation does nasty things and if you think any are above that you are naive and need time to let your views mature.

[Forsaken]

Don't worry, I'm sure JAD will point out that he has told you of america's wrongs numerous times in other threads, and so there is no reason to repeat himself. Honestly I think you do that every time you can't answer a question...say that you've answered it somewhere else and refuse to produce a link or quote.

There is a great difference between supporting cause and means. For example (and I don't speak for him obviously), Angel might support the CAUSE of the IRA, but not support the way they are going about it (i.e. killing people). Many people, including myself, were not against the CAUSE of the Iraq war (deposing an evil dictator), but rather the MEANS (no support from many foreign countries, using misinformation as justification, etc.)

[Larsson7]

I do not suport the "cause" of the IRA at all.

I said I "understand" why they fight to free their country from occupation.

[JADezimar]

I have said NUMEROUS times that the UK has done bad things. The difference is - I dont claim the UK is perfect. I dont respond to people pointing out faults in the UK by insulting them, they're country, they're political beliefs and all the other things you attack me for whenever I make an observation about the US.

Saus your misinterpreting me and/or twisting my words to make it sound like I said something I didnt.

#2 Saus Youve insulted Karma, Just as karma has insulted you. People have insulted me vice versa. I dont think you have the right to claim youve never done it.

And Suas Yes you have the right. And maybe you havnt claimed you do no wrong. But when you relentlessly Attack a nation and Deface it at any chance (even when its just not the Iraqi war subject)

You Give the impression that you are better

You will still give that impression. Maybe people shouldnt take it that way but people will. Its like Someone being a jobless bum Then Pointing fingers at someone else without a job. For not looking for one.

And Angel how bad does the UK still treat Ireland? Maybe Im wrong and its still horrible LIke clear back from when this started. But Now I honestly will admitt I could be wrong. But as far as I know its a fair peice of cake now. ANd the comparison would be like the southern states trying to suceed out of the union again over very old pasts history.

Theres a Time to stop living in the pasts. And start living in the present, building for a better future. Not slowing down progress. Like the IRA does. Cuase they dont accomplish anything.

[shutupandshave]

I dont relentlessly attack and deface the US at every opportunity.
I have a problem with the choices of words you use...because they say things that are not true by making grandiose statements. I would not argue if you had said that I have attacked the US in the past... I know I have. I have also said good things about it, which you still fail to recognise.

I tend to argue with Karma for the way he insults me almost constantly regardless of whether he is right or wrong. That's very different for you calling me (or anyone else) a euro leftie or telling me shove the EU up my (or anyone else's) arse.

You're opinion is very valid JAD, but I really think you need to choose your words far more carefully... as I said - the difference between "always" and "often" is a VERY important one, but is often overlooked in conversation.

[Larsson7]

And Angel how bad does the UK still treat Ireland? Maybe Im wrong and its still horrible LIke clear back from when this started. But Now I honestly will admitt I could be wrong. But as far as I know its a fair peice of cake now. ANd the comparison would be like the southern states trying to suceed out of the union again over very old pasts history.

Theres a Time to stop living in the pasts. And start living in the present, building for a better future. Not slowing down progress. Like the IRA does. Cuase they dont accomplish anything.

That is a very valid question, JAD.

IMO Britain does not mistreat the citizens of Northern Ireland at all and has quite a good relationship with the Republic of Ireland.

I would say that Northern Ireland today is closer to having a gateway to a United Ireland than it ever before.

It should be noted that not all citizens of Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland would necessarily be in favour of a united Ireland.

I would imagine that it would take a referendum to have a majority of people in NI and ROI to be in favour of a unity before anything would happen.

You see, JAD, the point that you still miss (and this is probably the most important part) is that it doesnt really matter if Britain treated us really well or really poorly - These people fight to be free of an occupying force that they do not want!

This is why you will continue to have American lives lost in Iraq. You are, wether or not you are doing a great thing or bad thing, invading another country and occupying it.

My point, as it always has been, is that people will fight to free their Homeland no matter if you treat them really well or not.

While this may perplex or irritate people in America who believe they are doing it for all the right reasons - people will never stop fighting to free their countries.

[JADezimar]

You see, JAD, the point that you still miss (and this is probably the most important part) is that it doesnt really matter if Britain treated us really well or really poorly - These people fight to be free of an occupying force that they do not want!

This is why you will continue to have American lives lost in Iraq. You are, wether or not you are doing a great thing or bad thing, invading another country and occupying it.

My point, as it always has been, is that people will fight to free their Homeland no matter if you treat them really well or not.

While this may perplex or irritate people in America who believe they are doing it for all the right reasons - people will never stop fighting to free their countries.

I found your posts quite intelligent. And A very well made out point angel. And I appreciate the small history lesson. But My point is. Does The IRA respresent all of Ireland or northern Ireland or Whichever sector wants free. Or a small percentage of the people there? I can understand the Irish Having pride to rule there own land which there ancestors rightfully owned. But Even before the Irish that island was owned by a different type of people. The Uk has been conquered by different peoples so many times. Who truly has the rightful claim on it ?

[shutupandshave]

Ireland is split up into two part
The Republic of Ireland (where the IRA comes from) and Northern Ireland (part of the UK). The RoI is a whole seperate country to N.Ireland (in the same way Canada is a whole seperate country to the USA).

Right now, the UK has control of Northern Ireland and that doesn't look like it is going to change in the near future.

[JADezimar]

K now here is the point. To beleive, That the U.S is part of supporting the IRA and to claim none of the N. Ireland has ever supported the IRA, etc isnt that kinda far fetched ?

[shutupandshave]

Saying that none of the UK has ever supported the IRA is very different to saying that the UK supports the IRA.

[shutupandshave]

Let me clarify it - the UK thinks the IRA are terrorists, and have done for a long time.
There is no evidence to support that the IRA has been funded by anything other than IRA cells living in the UK
there IS evidence to support that US business (which have no known links to the IRA) has supported the IRA.

I do believe that semantically the IRA has had support from UK citizens (even though they are by definition traitors, and give up their UK status by helping the terrorists)... which is a level detail I hadn't considered... however this all started when you said that the US has never supported the IRA, so either you are wrong, and the US HAS supported the IRA, and so have a few members of the IRA in the UK (which would make me wrong), or you are wrong because the IRA never got money from the US (or the UK).

I admit that I did not consider the IRA members in N.Ireland to be British (because they were fighting against the British, and didn't want to be British - which is a fair assumption) and they might "technically" be (which I still believe is a technicality) - however by proving me wrong here, you have completely invalidated your original point, which is that if someone in a country supports a terrorist organisation then the country supports terrorism.

Basically, I am happy to concede that point 1) because I believe technically you are right, but also because 2) by saying that people that live in that country that support terrorism means that country supports terrorism - you are saying that the US supports the AL-Q because some people lived there for a while that were terrorists.... and that makes me laugh.

[JADezimar]

Well this can Show the unified argument.

http://www.tlsconline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10818#post10818

Which basically Came to a Stand still

[Karmashock]

I tend to argue with Karma for the way he insults me almost constantly regardless of whether he is right or wrong.
pathetic. The argument of slime... I don't reference you in threads that don't concern you... I react to you... but nothing of you remains... if you didn't post tomorrow, I'd never mention your name again... I run into a thousand people like you every day... you are nothing special to me. That you are wrong is merely the product of your programming… don’t think you’re a robot?… then why are you so fucking predictable? I’m over you after every post.

Love, Karmashock.