Tech Guide Issue I:An in depth look at Processors

[00025]

If you're still confused on what processor to get. Here's a breakdown of the four most popular processors:

We have same BIOS Setting and processors are all at stock speeds. Basically we configured each to almost match each other(since motherboards have different configs we tried to match each others configs the best way possible).

Here's the bios settings:
Fast Gate A20 Option : ENABLED
Video BIOS shadowing : DISABLED
Video BIOS cacheable : DISABLED
xxxxx - xxxxx Shadow : ALL DISABLED
IDE prefetch mode : ENABLED
Init Display First : AGP or PCI (SELECT YOUR CARD TYPE)
IDE HDD Block Mode : ENABLED
IDE 32-bit transfer mode : ENABLED
Assign IRQ for USB : DISABLED (UNLESS YOU USE USB DEVICES)
Assign IRQ for VGA : ENABLED
PCI/VGA palette snoop : DISABLED
PNP OS Installed : ENABLED (UNLESS YOU WANT TO MANUALLY ASSIGN IRQ's)
Resource Controlled By : AUTO (UNLESS YOU WANT TO MANUALLY ASSIGN IRQs AND DMAs)
AGP aperture size : 128 (USE 64MB IF YOU EXPERIENCE TEXTURE CORRUPTION)
AGP master 1 WS write : DISABLED
AGP master 1 WS read : DISABLED
Bank 0/1, 2/3 DRAM timing : TURBO
CPU to PCI write buffer : ENABLED
Delayed Transaction : DISABLED
DRAM speculative leadoff : ENABLED
DRAM Data Integrity Mode : NON-ECC (UNLESS YOU HAVE ECC MEMORY)
Delay DRAM read latch : (THE LOWER, THE FASTER)
Fast writes : DISABLED
Memory parity/ECC check : DISABLED
Passive Release : ENABLED
PCI Concurrency : ENABLED
PCI master 0 WS write : ENABLED
RAS active time : (THE LOWER, THE FASTER)
RAS to CAS delay : (THE LOWER, THE FASTER)
Read around write : ENABLED
SDRAM Bank Interleave : 4-bank/way
SDRAM CAS Latency Time : 2
SDRAM cycle length : 2
SDRAM Precharge control : ENABLED
Spread spectrum (modulation): DISABLED
System BIOS cacheable : DISABLED
Video RAM cacheable : DISABLED
8 bit I/O Recovery Time : 1
16 bit I/O Recovery Time : 1
Turbo frequency : ENABLED

Here's the results:
Temperature(all using Arctic Silver 5 and Cooler Master heatsink/fan):
AMD AthlonXP 3000+ -> runs at 102.2 F
AMD Athlon 64 3000+ -> runs at 114.8 F
Pentium 4 HT 3.2 ghz Wiliamette -> runs at 122 F
Pentium 4 HT 3.2 ghz Northwood ->runs at 127.4 F

*As you may have noticed the Pentium 4s ran hotter than the AMDs
*We used 8rdavcore and the BIOS to keep an eye on temperatures

Benchmarks
PCMark 04:
AthlonXP 3000+ -> 3948
Athlon 64 3000+ -> 4298
P4 Wiliamette -> 4580
P4 Northwood -> 4495

3DMark 03:
*Note all are using Built by ATI 9800xt GPUs
AthlonXP 3000+ -> 6466
Athlon 64 3000+ -> 6999
P4 Wiliamette -> 6247
P4 Northwood -> 5499 (We didnt know what happened with this one cause we think its too low but we tested it again and got 5530. I think its just the way it is)

Here's how it breaks down:
AMD runs muck cooler but cant handle too much multitasking(According to PCMark scores) but is awesome in gaming(According to 3DMark scores). P4 runs great with multitasking and good for gaming but runs really hot.

AMD is overclockable to really fast speeds. P4 can be overclocked but would need a better heatsink to reduce the risk of burning it.

Bottom line:
AMD is good for gamers and overclockers.
P4 is good for multitaskers and media enthusiasts.

*the BIOS settings were the settings recomended by Omegadrivers (http://www.omegadrivers.net/).


you can get 8rdavcore at:
http://www.hasw.net/8rdavcore/

[Karmashock]

shivvy... Amd it is then... I multi task allot... but I doubt it will matter...

low heat = longer life too...

[Quesela]

Sweet! now i have confirmation that my choice of a new amd64 was a good one :D thankies

[00025]

Glad to help.

A week after we did the test the P4 Northwood died. My stupid cousin overclocked it like it was the end of the world. He was trying to beat my overclocked AMD64's performance. And he's supposed to be the computer engineer graduate.
Now he's crying like a baby since he couldn't buy another one until thanksgiving(he's waiting for all the sales to come out).

Now all I have to do is wait until Intel releases their 64 bit processor. I still have confidence in Intel. Hopefully they fix their mistakes about how they manufacture their processor die/chip. If they could be able to run it in 64 bit and manage to keep it cool at the same time they may still have a chance in beating AMD.

[laserflip]

i run DoW on a nice vidcard and RAM, but my processor is, I THINK, what slows me down. i run a 2.0 ghz AMD Athalon 2400+...not good enough for DoW u think? what would be the cheapest/easiest way to upgrade it? any tips? that is probably my next upgrade for my system.

[Magus]

Laser, I run a 1.8 gHz processor, and with everything save shadows on max. DoW runs fine. Tell us what else you have...

[LardGibs]

I would look into overclocking the front side bus, and turning down the multiplier on that 2400+. I've had 2, and they really did benefit from the improved memory bandwidth, which is a significant part of gaming load. The default FSB for that baby is 266, and both the ones I had could handle 400. Depending on which RAM you have, you should be able to go to at least 333, and if your mobo is decent and can adjust the needed voltages you should be able to run stably at 400 fsb.

Also, if your vidcard doesn't have quite enough video ram, which is why Magus is asking for specifics, it can run like total ass when you use textures that are too detailed, because they are constantly getting transferred into the card.

So right now I have an Abit NF-7Sv1.2 with XP-M 2400 running at 2.2 ghz/400fsb on some nice Samsung DDR333 sticks that burned in supa :D

[00025]

Lard is right but you need to have sufficient cooling for your processor and heatsinks in your RAMs if you want to overclock. But I guess stock cooling is enough if your gonna overclock from 266 to 300 but pass that I think you may have some problems(But dont take my word on it since whenever I overclock something I make sure there's sufficient cooling). Im surprised that lard got it to run at 400Mhz fsb speeds because even if you have your case open all the time or you're using watercooling its hard to get an XP 2400+ to run at that speeds or maybe he has a T'bred model B (Lard, How hot is your CPU and memory running?).
If your overclocking at stock cooling try incrementing it by 2mhz at a time then test it. Sure it will take a long time to do it but you lessen the risk of killing our PC. You dont have to access through the BIOS to do this, try using 8rdavcore to overclock your processor. I posted the link above. Hopefully you dont have a "Barton" model since Bartons have locked multipliers.

[LardGibs]

It's an XP-M barton, (laptop chip), and it runs at 60 C when priming, 40C case temps. *hothothot*:D Theoretically the XP-M can run at 100C, it has a better temperature spec, but prime fails around 62C. I've been meaning to redo the arctic silver sometime just to see if I used too much.

The first one I had didn't go over 2 GHz at 400, that mobo (soyo POS) only had the on-die sensor. Pretty sure it was a t-bred B. My bro still runs it.

The only time I overheat is in the summertime, when the geforce fx5900SE is dumping another 100W in the case.
It's worth mentioning, if you're considering overclocking NEVER USE THE STOCK HEATSINK AND FAN. well, maybe for just a teeny fsb overclock as long as you downclock the CPU core so its the same overall. So if you're all thumbs and can't change out a heatsink and fan without making things worse overall,then I bet you could get a 333 fsb overclock just for messing about in the BIOS. to get DDR333 to 400, you almost always need extra memory voltage, and/or relax the timings from 2 to 2.5 CL.

Another thing I didn't say that bears mentioning is that speed really is dependent on having the memory synchronous with the FSB, or failing that in the 33 MHz common multiple. So 333/333, 333/400, 400/400, etc.

Water cooling would be nice, would cut down the noise which is a bit extreme at the moment with 2 20CFM squirrel cage blowers in there.

[Fragman]

i oced my 2500 barton to 370 something fsb dont remember the exact number and you can see the speed in my sig.

[00025]

I'll be implementing Dry Ice cooling tomorrow. Hopefully I wont mess up. And I will also start the case mod I've been thinking of doing for a long time(NERV-Eva mod). I'll post the step by step on how I did it as soon as I start it.

[00025]

Wait Lard, didn't you have trouble changing the multiplier? I thought Bartons have locked multipliers. And are you using a the XP-M in a desktop or in a laptop?

Well I guess you could put it in a desktop cause AthlonXP-M is SocketA too, right?

[LardGibs]

XP-M is multiplier unlocked because of Speedstep :D

the voltage ID string comes out wrong because it's nominally 1.4V and that corresponds to something different (1.65), but not enough to smoke it on the default sets with a regular heatsink and fan.

so pretty much any DIY socket A board with a reasonable BIOS, meaning settable multiplier.

the 2500 barton for desktops was an easy 3200+ o/c from what I read because you just set fsb to 400 and hope your ram can handle it.

finally, there are some XP-Ms that are 1.2 v that don't fit in a Socket A, but those aren't really common in the market so the odds of getting one by accident are very low.

[Fragman]

no you just set the fsb to some were around 370-380 if you do 800 your almost sure to be unstable and voltage about 1.4 or so but higher you give less time you have with your processor in the long run.

[Abyss]

When I first bought my amd 1700+ I had no idea what overclocking even was. I suppose I just got lucky. I found out the 1700+ has a bit of a reputation among the overclocking community as being a "cat's ass processor" for overclocking. Without any voltage adjustments and a stock fan I've got my 1700+ which normally runs at 1.47 ghz (11x133) running at 1.825 (12.5x146). The temperature is around 57 degrees celcius at this rate. So yeah with a decent heatsink and fan I can imagine what this baby could do!

[Wicksy]

It's an XP-M barton, (laptop chip), and it runs at 60 C when priming, 40C case temps. *hothothot*:D.

Yes, that's too hot! For the circuitry and especially for the hard disk. 30C is about what you want. Look for a case with active cooling (ie. responds to temp by increasing fan speed).

As an aside: keeping the PC running will tend to increase its life-span, because turning it on/off/on will cause its temp to fluctuate. This will in turn cause the metallic circuitry to expand/contract/expand, causing fractures. Inside a chip this becomes more apparent.

As for processors, Pentiums are better than AMD's at certain things, and worse at others. Pentiums actually run FEWER operations per clock cycle than AMD's, which is akin to a person with short legs having to move their legs faster than a person with long legs to achieve the same running speed. I think a Pentium executes 3 operations per clock cycle, but AMD's execute 6. Or something like that. That's why AMD chose the "2600+" route for grading their processors, because in terms of GHz (the "accepted" graduation for processors), they couldn't compete, even though their processors performed as well as Pentiums at slower clock rates.

Pentium chips perform better (in terms of performance/price) at number-crunching with floating point operations (FLOPS). This makes them better for gaming and video conversion (ie. DVD ripping). The Intel SSE/SSE2 instruction set is specifically designed for these things.

AMD chips are actually better (in terms of performance/price) at everyday tasks which do not require FLOPS. This means Office/browsing/email etc.

So if you dont do gaming, AMD is by far the better option. For gaming, go for a Pentium.

[laserflip]

Laser, I run a 1.8 gHz processor, and with everything save shadows on max. DoW runs fine. Tell us what else you have...


radeon 9600 pro, 512 mb DDR ram, as well as the 2.0 ghz athalon processor

[mOle]

well.. my PC is dying.. i have two *blowing out of case* fan's that aint blowing

they are installed on the mobo

[eXoRciSt]

danm i have a ..... 2.8 ghz w/e

[Abyss]

00025 were you using a Socket 754 or Socket 939 Amd 64? From what I've read the 939's run a little bit cooler so all the better for overclocking.