Depleted Uranium use

[shutupandshave]

Following the Gulf War, cancer rates in Iraq have risen as much as 700% in some areas, and birth deformities have risen by 400%. As many as 100,000 veterans are now afflicted with so-called 'Gulf War Syndrome'.

[DrunkenUno]

ok.

[Karmashock]

there isn't any good information in that case... most of it involves a lot of conjecture and assumptions.

[Dibujante]

U235 and U238 are both heavy elements, that is, they have more than 73 protons inside of their nucleus. They are, by nature, prone to spontaneous decay until they revert to something like, say, Iron. Therefore, they are, by definition, carcinogenic and teratogenic, since at that density they will emit alpha, beta and gamma radiation. They are minor nuclear weapons, although they were not intended for that purpose. It is still, however, irresponsible to use them.

The real malice comes from U.S. 5.56 caliber. It is designed to have an increased rate of yawing. For those who do not know what yawing is, it's when a bullet breaks into multiple fragments after entering a body. It is designed to maximize wound potential, much like hollow-point bullets, which are outlawed by the Geneva Convention for a reason.

Regards,
Dibujante

[Karmashock]

it's anti tank ammo.

[Dibujante]

Duh. That doesn't mean that it doesn't have lasting effects on civilians exposed to spent shells/casings.

[Karmashock]

only the slugs should kick out enough to be dangerious after LONG LONG exposure. As far as I know, the only thing to use those rounds were our tanks and the A10 Warthogs... in either case, they were blowing up iraqi tanks in the desert.


so I don't see the problem... maybe a junk scavanger should wear a little protection... otherwise... eh...

[Dibujante]

Unless it leaches into the water table, which is a possibility, even in the desert.

[Karmashock]

at that level, I doubt it's a threat.

[Dibujante]

It's greater than you think:
http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:eZESOXpR4AQJ:www.elc.org.uk/papers/2003Durakovic%2520.doc+u235+concentration+water+ca rcinogenic&hl=en
Gulf War veterans are coughing up a fair amount of this stuff. It will have a much-amplified effect on foeti.
Also, 350 metric Tons of DU were left in Iraq. That's far from insignificant.
Further, 3 to 6 million grams of aerosol DU left in the air over Iraq will have caused DU distribution over all of the major water tables as well as contamination into the Indian Ocean.
Regards,
Dibujante

[Karmashock]

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs257/en/
Exposure to uranium and depleted uranium

* Under most circumstances, use of DU will make a negligible contribution to the overall natural background levels of uranium in the environment. Probably the greatest potential for DU exposure will follow conflict where DU munitions are used.
* A recent United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) report giving field measurements taken around selected impact sites in Kosovo (Federal Republic of Yugoslavia) indicates that contamination by DU in the environment was localized to a few tens of metres around impact sites. Contamination by DU dusts of local vegetation and water supplies was found to be extremely low. Thus, the probability of significant exposure to local populations was considered to be very low.
* A UN expert team reported in November 2002 that they found traces of DU in three locations among 14 sites investigated in Bosnia following NATO airstrikes in 1995. A full report is expected to be published by UNEP in March 2003.
* Levels of DU may exceed background levels of uranium close to DU contaminating events. Over the days and years following such an event, the contamination normally becomes dispersed into the wider natural environment by wind and rain. People living or working in affected areas may inhale contaminated dusts or consume contaminated food and drinking water.
* People near an aircraft crash may be exposed to DU dusts if counterweights are exposed to prolonged intense heat. Significant exposure would be rare, as large masses of DU counterweights are unlikely to ignite and would oxidize only slowly. Exposures of clean-up and emergency workers to DU following aircraft accidents are possible, but normal occupational protection measures would prevent any significant exposure.


you'll likely find something that bothers you, but this whole thing is over blown.

[Dibujante]

The data are from a Kosovo study. Much less DU was used in Kosovo. Cancer rates in Iraq are a few hundreds of percent higher, which is still negligible, except when discussing rates of birth defects, since they tend to be four to seven fold what the adult cancer rate is. DNA damage done to foeti causes millions of cells of future damage as defective cells reproduce.
Regards,
Dibujante

[Karmashock]

the numbers out of Iraq are provided by Saddam who has a vested interest in making it look at bad as possible. There is quite a bit of evidence that he starved a few communities just to try and get the oil for food thing going.

[Dibujante]

There's also evidence that the malnutrition rate (as reported by the Red Cross) decreased 50% under the oil-for-food program.
Regards,
Dibujante

[Karmashock]

... Anything uncle Saddam says eh?

Again... a waste of my time.

[Dibujante]

Aye. Why fight a war you've already lost? Sounds to me like you should move on to more productive things, like convincing people that cutting taxes will increase revenue. Or selling them "magical beans" that will lead them to a castle in the sky full of gold.
Regards,
Dibujante

[Karmashock]

all you're doing now is trying to goad me... I ended your petty nonsense about that ammunition, I humiliated your nonsense about oil for food, and now you've just devolved into childish prodding.

utterly pointless.

[Dibujante]

So...the red cross has been humiliated by the might Karmashock? I'm impressed. You must be a powerful orator and debator indeed, to accomplish all that without any believable evidence at all. Truly, I am humbled. I shall have to overlook my soft reliance on the real world.
Regards,
Dibujante

[Karmashock]

The Red Cross was humiliated by their own inability to spot a potemkin village when they see one.


If you were a dictator and you wanted to fool with the what the Red cross saw... could you?

I have no confidence in the red cross's ability to see through something like that and frankly suspect they were so lazy they just reprinted numbers that saddam handed them.

[Dibujante]

At this point, it's boiled down to my assertion of "A" and your disbelief of "A", but with no particular means of proving either point. My participation in this thread has ended.
Regards,
Dibujante

[Morpheus]

"...you take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe..."

[Dibujante]

Well, in this case, yes, since the concentration of DU necessary to cause birth defects in a significant portion of the population has not been studied. Therefore, there's no choice but to believe what one wants to believe.
Regards,
Dibujante

[Karmashock]

"...you take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe..."
that of course goes both ways. Is wonderland the fantasy or the true reality? A matter of perspective. :)

[Morpheus]

Both ways intended. Perspective is everything.

[The Dark Messenger]

How do I know if what I perceive as reality is reality? How can I be certain that what seems to be existance is merely a fabricated false universe? How do I know I'm not just a brain in jar somewhere, and my whole world is fed to me by a computer?

--Neural Vat #286 unusual thought patterns. Subject termination advised.

[Karmashock]

--MHub #00073 pacification treatment RB321 @ NV286 - execute.