paidinfull
Jun 23, 2009, @ 09:19 PM
So Jax and I were having a friendly discussion regarding Sportsmanship scoring in tournaments, and it got me wondering what some of the more common scoring for sportsmanship were out there.
After my last tournament, and having participated in a few, I personally am a little annoyed at these systems. I just feel that they don't work the way they are intended, or maybe they do... and I'm just a bad sport! He he It's just that they always tend to yield Perfect Scores across the board. While that should mean that most people are having a great time, and we definitely want everyone to be having fun, I can't help but feel that isn't always the case. And is it necessarily a good system? Could it be improved? How?
How do you create a system, that encourages players to have fun, not to be a total douche, and follow the rules but at the same time accurately score something to be contributed to an Overall Score?
This obviously is incredibly hard to do. At first I thought, if you had an impartial judge do the scoring for the system that could work, but for IFL purposes you will almost ALWAYS be partial because you know and are friends with them! I think one of the basic problems is filling it out in front of your opponent, and/or removing the potential of tanking one of your competitors. What normally tends to transpire after each game is: "Andy, I'm going to give you a 5 on sportsmanship" "Ok mark me down for 5 as well". I might be thinking on it too much, but there are a lot of nice guys in our gaming group. If someone says "I gave you a 5"... I think it's hard for a nice guy to be like... "Well, you kinda moved 8" instead of 6" to get your charges off, and you also kindaaaa cheated on your dice roll, so I'm going to give you a 1." How do you eliminate those scenarios entirely into a flat standardized but effective system?
Normally scoring systems include:
Battle Points (ok, this one is pretty easy)
Sportsmanship (established but does it really work?)
Painting (easy to establish good vs bad... but excellent vs phenomenal?)
Rules/Hobby (I added this because I really like Kevin's rulebook quiz on his Apoc tourney)
Creating a standardized scoring system is tough, but I thought perhaps if we talked collectively, as a community, we might be able to come up with something that enforced the spirit of the game while being easily implemented(read: not giving each other Most Amazing Game ever scores when it really was just a good game)
Sports (0-80)
Sportsmanship is about having a good game. There are a thousand things that can make a game good or bad, and no one can list them all. It is very hard to determine how good or how bad a game was. It's very subjective and different to everyone. However, it is easy to tell if a game was good or bad and pretty much everyone can agree on it, so for the Alamo GT, sportsmanship will focus on if the game was good or bad.
BASE POINTS
We assume that everyone coming to the Alamo Great Tournament will be a good sport and because the average score is 64, we will give them those 64 points on credit because we think they will keep them.
Start with 64
After each game the players will have one question on the score sheet which asks, "Did your opponent's behavior and/or army selection honestly make this a bad game for you?" If someone receives a yes then they will have to give back some of those points given on credit.
1 bad game -4
2 bad games -8
3 bad games -16
4 bad games -32
5 bad games -64
These are not cumulative modifiers. Only the lowest applicable modifier will be applied. Unlike a simple linear system, each vote is not worth the same. Everyone might have one bad game. But when someone is rude over 4 games there is something going on and it should cost them more, and under our scoring system it will cost them much more.
No one should be worried about being dinged out of spite which is so prevalent in other systems because this system focuses on the consensus of all five of ones opponents. While one bad vote will cost you points it cannot not knock you out of the running because of its small worth. However, when someone scores poorly over several games it is usually their own fault and they deserve what they get.
RED CARD – Judges will be empowered to hand out a Red Card to any player who acts in an egregious manner that is unbecoming to an INDY GT. Each Red Card will act as an EXTRA bad game mark.
BEST SPORT VOTE POINTS
At the end of the tournament everyone shall vote for their best opponent. The question will read, "I certify that ______ provided me with the best game of the weekend. His attitude and army selection were outstanding." As with bad game votes, the value of each best game vote goes up dramatically the more of them you get:
1 best game 1
2 best games 2
3 best games 4
4 best games 8
5 best games 16
The remaining Base Points (after bad game deductions) will be added to the Best Sport Votes to determine the total sportsmanship points.
SPORTSMANSHIP
Your sportsmanship score will be worth up to 20 points of your total score which is added to the team total at the end of the event. At the end of each game you will be asked to score your opponent against the following criteria:
* Excellent conduct. What more can I say? I wish more players were this good. 5 points
* Above average conduct. More than what I expected. They are a credit to the gaming scene. 4 points
* Average conduct. What I expected. Played within the spirit of the game. 3 points
* Below Average conduct. I expected more. They need to lift their game. 2 points
* Very Poor conduct. Mmmm. Do I need to say more? 1 point
* Deplorable conduct. Expulsion from the event should be considered 0 points
Player's overall sportsmanship scores will be based upon how many points you received from opponents, with 5 points awarded for each time you are rated as one of your opponent's best sports. Players will therefore receive a total of between 0 (for not being selected by any opponents) to 20 sportsmanship points (five points each from all four opponents).
Sportsmanship
3 Points - We shared a perfect game
2 Points - We had multiple rules discussions and/or a few disagreements
1 Point - We had so many discussions and/or a few disagreements we didn't make turn 5
0 Points - I guess you could call it a game...
2 points - In an homage to Kevin, I will be adding a single quiz question to each sheet worth 2 points taken from the BGB. Each player must answer this question and may not consult with others. As this area will undoubtedly be filled with lots of 3's I will do my best to find obscure and difficult scenarios to make these more challenging.
Sportsmanship
This score is based on your opponents behaviour during the game, not his/her army.
Every round every player receives 0 points.
This score can be adjusted by +1 or -1
Simply go along to the data-entry point after your game and ask for the score to be adjusted accordingly. An average sportsmanship score is 3 points for each round, giving a +/- will adjust the score by 2 tournament points.
Sportsmanship (maximum 25 points)
All tournaments include this category to encourage players to take part in the tournament in the right spirit. Obviously we deplore rude or unsporting behavior and we hope that the points that can be earned for being a sporting and friendly opponent will discourage players from even thinking of acting in this manner.
After every game each player will answer the 5 questions below regarding their opponent’s sportsmanship attributes throughout the game. A player's tournament points for sports are calculated by their opponent's responses to these questions. Every yes answer will earn 1 point.
1. Regardless of the outcome of the battle…was your opponent's behavior appropriate and didn’t detract from your enjoyment of the game?
2. Were all rules queries resolved amicably and without too much argument?
3. There were no attempts by your opponent to try anything "dodgy" during the game in your opinion? ("Rubber Ruler", Intentions not stated prior to doing something - moving, shooting, charging etc
4. In your opinion, did your opponent play the game in the right spirit? Did they maintain a sensible approach and demeanor when things were not going their way?
5. Would you be happy enough to play your opponent again? Maybe not today but at another tournament perhaps?
After my last tournament, and having participated in a few, I personally am a little annoyed at these systems. I just feel that they don't work the way they are intended, or maybe they do... and I'm just a bad sport! He he It's just that they always tend to yield Perfect Scores across the board. While that should mean that most people are having a great time, and we definitely want everyone to be having fun, I can't help but feel that isn't always the case. And is it necessarily a good system? Could it be improved? How?
How do you create a system, that encourages players to have fun, not to be a total douche, and follow the rules but at the same time accurately score something to be contributed to an Overall Score?
This obviously is incredibly hard to do. At first I thought, if you had an impartial judge do the scoring for the system that could work, but for IFL purposes you will almost ALWAYS be partial because you know and are friends with them! I think one of the basic problems is filling it out in front of your opponent, and/or removing the potential of tanking one of your competitors. What normally tends to transpire after each game is: "Andy, I'm going to give you a 5 on sportsmanship" "Ok mark me down for 5 as well". I might be thinking on it too much, but there are a lot of nice guys in our gaming group. If someone says "I gave you a 5"... I think it's hard for a nice guy to be like... "Well, you kinda moved 8" instead of 6" to get your charges off, and you also kindaaaa cheated on your dice roll, so I'm going to give you a 1." How do you eliminate those scenarios entirely into a flat standardized but effective system?
Normally scoring systems include:
Battle Points (ok, this one is pretty easy)
Sportsmanship (established but does it really work?)
Painting (easy to establish good vs bad... but excellent vs phenomenal?)
Rules/Hobby (I added this because I really like Kevin's rulebook quiz on his Apoc tourney)
Creating a standardized scoring system is tough, but I thought perhaps if we talked collectively, as a community, we might be able to come up with something that enforced the spirit of the game while being easily implemented(read: not giving each other Most Amazing Game ever scores when it really was just a good game)
Sports (0-80)
Sportsmanship is about having a good game. There are a thousand things that can make a game good or bad, and no one can list them all. It is very hard to determine how good or how bad a game was. It's very subjective and different to everyone. However, it is easy to tell if a game was good or bad and pretty much everyone can agree on it, so for the Alamo GT, sportsmanship will focus on if the game was good or bad.
BASE POINTS
We assume that everyone coming to the Alamo Great Tournament will be a good sport and because the average score is 64, we will give them those 64 points on credit because we think they will keep them.
Start with 64
After each game the players will have one question on the score sheet which asks, "Did your opponent's behavior and/or army selection honestly make this a bad game for you?" If someone receives a yes then they will have to give back some of those points given on credit.
1 bad game -4
2 bad games -8
3 bad games -16
4 bad games -32
5 bad games -64
These are not cumulative modifiers. Only the lowest applicable modifier will be applied. Unlike a simple linear system, each vote is not worth the same. Everyone might have one bad game. But when someone is rude over 4 games there is something going on and it should cost them more, and under our scoring system it will cost them much more.
No one should be worried about being dinged out of spite which is so prevalent in other systems because this system focuses on the consensus of all five of ones opponents. While one bad vote will cost you points it cannot not knock you out of the running because of its small worth. However, when someone scores poorly over several games it is usually their own fault and they deserve what they get.
RED CARD – Judges will be empowered to hand out a Red Card to any player who acts in an egregious manner that is unbecoming to an INDY GT. Each Red Card will act as an EXTRA bad game mark.
BEST SPORT VOTE POINTS
At the end of the tournament everyone shall vote for their best opponent. The question will read, "I certify that ______ provided me with the best game of the weekend. His attitude and army selection were outstanding." As with bad game votes, the value of each best game vote goes up dramatically the more of them you get:
1 best game 1
2 best games 2
3 best games 4
4 best games 8
5 best games 16
The remaining Base Points (after bad game deductions) will be added to the Best Sport Votes to determine the total sportsmanship points.
SPORTSMANSHIP
Your sportsmanship score will be worth up to 20 points of your total score which is added to the team total at the end of the event. At the end of each game you will be asked to score your opponent against the following criteria:
* Excellent conduct. What more can I say? I wish more players were this good. 5 points
* Above average conduct. More than what I expected. They are a credit to the gaming scene. 4 points
* Average conduct. What I expected. Played within the spirit of the game. 3 points
* Below Average conduct. I expected more. They need to lift their game. 2 points
* Very Poor conduct. Mmmm. Do I need to say more? 1 point
* Deplorable conduct. Expulsion from the event should be considered 0 points
Player's overall sportsmanship scores will be based upon how many points you received from opponents, with 5 points awarded for each time you are rated as one of your opponent's best sports. Players will therefore receive a total of between 0 (for not being selected by any opponents) to 20 sportsmanship points (five points each from all four opponents).
Sportsmanship
3 Points - We shared a perfect game
2 Points - We had multiple rules discussions and/or a few disagreements
1 Point - We had so many discussions and/or a few disagreements we didn't make turn 5
0 Points - I guess you could call it a game...
2 points - In an homage to Kevin, I will be adding a single quiz question to each sheet worth 2 points taken from the BGB. Each player must answer this question and may not consult with others. As this area will undoubtedly be filled with lots of 3's I will do my best to find obscure and difficult scenarios to make these more challenging.
Sportsmanship
This score is based on your opponents behaviour during the game, not his/her army.
Every round every player receives 0 points.
This score can be adjusted by +1 or -1
Simply go along to the data-entry point after your game and ask for the score to be adjusted accordingly. An average sportsmanship score is 3 points for each round, giving a +/- will adjust the score by 2 tournament points.
Sportsmanship (maximum 25 points)
All tournaments include this category to encourage players to take part in the tournament in the right spirit. Obviously we deplore rude or unsporting behavior and we hope that the points that can be earned for being a sporting and friendly opponent will discourage players from even thinking of acting in this manner.
After every game each player will answer the 5 questions below regarding their opponent’s sportsmanship attributes throughout the game. A player's tournament points for sports are calculated by their opponent's responses to these questions. Every yes answer will earn 1 point.
1. Regardless of the outcome of the battle…was your opponent's behavior appropriate and didn’t detract from your enjoyment of the game?
2. Were all rules queries resolved amicably and without too much argument?
3. There were no attempts by your opponent to try anything "dodgy" during the game in your opinion? ("Rubber Ruler", Intentions not stated prior to doing something - moving, shooting, charging etc
4. In your opinion, did your opponent play the game in the right spirit? Did they maintain a sensible approach and demeanor when things were not going their way?
5. Would you be happy enough to play your opponent again? Maybe not today but at another tournament perhaps?