Next month decisions...

[flipperray]

HQ (365)

-Company command squad w/ Colonel Iron Hand Straken, melta x2, bodyguard, = 180

-Commissar Yarrick = 185

Elites (65)

-Sly Marbo = 65

Troops (510)

-Veteran squad w/ flamer x3, power fist = 155
-chimera (w/heavy flamer, ML)

-Veteran squad w/ flamer x3, power fist = 155
-chimera (w/ heavy bolter, ML)

-Veteran squad w/ melta x3 = 100

-Veteran squad w/ melta x3 = 100

Fast Attack (390)

-Valkyrie w/ multi-laser, MRPs = 130

-Valkyrie w/ multi-laser, MRPs = 130

-Vendetta gun ship = 130

Heavy Support (665)

-Leman Russ executioner w/ plasma sponsons, heavy bolter = 230

-Leman Russ executioner w/ plasma sponsons, heavy bolter = 230

-Leman Russ demolisher w/ plasma sponsons, heavy bolter = 205


or


HQ (365)

-Company command squad w/ Colonel Iron Hand Straken, melta x2, bodyguard, = 180

-Commissar Yarrick = 185

Troops (510)

-Veteran squad w/ flamer x3, power fist = 155
-chimera (w/heavy flamer, ML)

-Veteran squad w/ flamer x3, power fist = 155
-chimera (w/ heavy bolter, ML)

-Veteran squad w/ melta x3 = 100

Fast Attack (390)

-Bane Wolf squad = 290
-Bane Wolf w/ multi-melta (145)
-Bane Wolf w/ multi-melta (145)

-Valkyrie w/ multi-laser, MRPs = 130

-Vendetta gun ship = 130

Heavy Support (665)

-Leman Russ executioner w/ plasma sponsons, heavy bolter = 230

-Leman Russ executioner w/ plasma sponsons, heavy bolter = 230

-Leman Russ demolisher w/ plasma sponsons, heavy bolter = 205

[paidinfull]

Your points are a little goofy in the Fast Attack section...

[paidinfull]

Do you find the Vendetta is working for you in these lists?

It seems like you are ok on AT with the MM and the Demolisher

[MVB]

Don't give banewolves multi-meltas. It's an inherent thought process to be like "well they can move 12 and fire the multi melta and the chem cannon, and they can even hurt tanks!"

Well, the devildog with multi-melta is cheaper than the banewolf, is more effective against terminators and plague marines (plague marines get a FNP against the chem cannon, but not against the melta cannon), and is more effective against vehicles. The BS3 makes the multi-melta banewolf a waste often, b/c you're not going to be using the chem cannon and you will be missing with half of the multi-melta shots.

Give them heavy flamers, which IIRC is free as an upgrade to the heavy bolter, and you have a 2-part infantry killer that is penultimate in a lot of ways.

Attacking marines? Just fire the chem cannon, so they can't cheese out allocation adn you'll still kill 'em all. Attacking anything with armor saves of 4+ or worse? Fire both weapons after moving 12 ... the chem cannon is a defensive weapon either way.

I think banewolves are rockin' good units, but the multi-melta attachment is just bad PR and bullshit idiocy from the bell of lost souls folks ... a lot of them suck at the game of 40k by the admission of most of their articles, and I assume play against poor opponents as a general rule ... or something, I don't know.

Not to nerdrage, but ... to nerdrage ... heh.

[paidinfull]

I'm pretty sure I beat one of the BoLS guys at the Baltimore GT... 2007? Whatever the second to last one was. This was after not playing for more than a year and taking a less than optimized Tau list. (I ran an ethereal and vespids). I finished something like 18th, I think.

On topic, I completely agree with Mike. BS3 is not reliable enough to warrant the cost. However, for 135pts, the Devildog with Multi-Melta is a pretty nice choice as you can move 6" and fire both.

Mike, I know with the Chem cannon + Heavy Flamer, there might be some wound doubling but most MeQ lists have at Max 4 points to break down the wounds, one of which will have 6-7 like models in it, you really think it's better to NOT fire both and risk rolling poorly on the Chem Cannon?

6 Marines out of a 10 man tac squad are hit with the Templates from the Bane Wolf. Special weapon, SGT, heavy

Chem does 5 wounds
Hvy does 4 wounds

Still not enough to mess with wound allocation,
Now... smaller squads...

[MVB]

Combat squadded, you wouldn't do it ... that's like the ONLY time you wouldn't.

Example:

Chem cannon shoots at 5 marines w/ power fist and meltagun and 3 bobos, a very common combat squad for the assault portion of a marine army, and does 5 wounds (b/c you can probably pull that off more often than not). Heavy flamer does 4 wounds let's say.

Now he has 9 wounds to allocate to 5 guys, 5 of which ignore armor entirely.

flamer --> pfist
flamer --> meltagun
chemcannon --> bolter
chemcannon --> bolter
chemcannon --> bolter

now 2 heavy flamer wounds and 2 chemcannon wounds left
flamer --> meltagun
flamer --> bolter
chemcannon --> bolter
chemcannon ---> bolter

so now you have a power fist making one armor save, a meltagun making 2 armor saves, both are statistically likely to survive, or if you combine it all one will survive at least statistically

the bolters get to "waste" one of the armor saves from the heavy flamer, and the rest die anyway soaking up all the chemcannon wounds


If you fire just the chemcannon, and you roll no 1's on 5 dice, you kill 5 marines, period, despite inflicting 4 less wounds


Still, the point remains, that even if it's better to fire just the chem cannon instead of the heavy flamer also on occasion, generally it's a kickass tank that does a lot of hurt to most infantry targets.

As for the devildog, yeah ... 135 points for a meltacannon + multi-melta is rocking, and is very effective against MEQ's and tanks ... just less effective than the banewolf against hordes. So the question is, does your list have enough anti-tank? If it does, take heavyflamer/chemcan banewolves. If it doesn't, take multimelta / meltacannon devildogs.

[flipperray]

I agree with just about everything said. Was like 96% going to run the first list just wanted to ssee if i could squeeze some hellhounds in.

[paidinfull]

96% is a good number... did you have a spreadsheet to list your pros and cons?
:-)