[IG] 2k List (new)

[paidinfull]

I am finally able to register and post.

What a delight. It's like a Christmas Miracle!

Current squabbles:
3 Commissars? They do make my troops stubborn, offer some meager HTH, and make them a little more resilient... But they're 45pts as is, I could easily add more fire power elsewhere but that's more KP in an already hefty KP list.
Plasma Pistol or Powersword on the Commissar. The idea of Drive By 4 plasma shots is pretty sweet. The down side is obviously the cost and the fact the commissar would usually die if he rolls Gets Hot!

I had Kell in the command squad to make it more beefy and the banner is a nice bonus but I don't like having that much in one squad(points wise).
Do I drop the commissars and add another squad in a chimera?
Keep the commissars?
Change the Power swords to Plasma Pistols?
Drop the commissars and beef out the command squad and have the sentinels be lascannon toting?


HQ
Command Squad - 240
Straken, Officer of the Fleet, Astropath, Medic, Flamer

TROOPS
Platoon Command Squad - 145
Al' Rahem, 3x Plasma guns
Chimera - 55
Multi-laser, heavy flamer

10x Guardsmen - 120
Plasma gun, Sgt w/ Plasma Pistol, Commissar w/ PW
Chimera - 55
Multi-laser, heavy flamer

10x Guardsmen - 120
Plasma gun, Sgt w/ Plasma Pistol, Commissar w/ PW
Chimera - 55
Multi-laser, heavy flamer

10x Guardsmen - 120
Plasma gun, Sgt w/ Plasma Pistol, Commissar w/ PW
Chimera - 55
Multi-laser, heavy flamer

10x Veterans - 130
3x Meltaguns, Shotguns, Demo charge + Meltabombs

10x Veterans - 130
3x Meltaguns, Shotguns, Demo charge + Meltabombs

ELITES
1x Marbo - 65

10x Psyker Battle Squad - 110

FAST
2x Valkyrie - 260
2x Rocket Pods

2x Vendettas - 260

2x Sentinels - 80
2x Autocannon

81 models
2000 points on the dot
16 KP

[MVB]

Before I post much about your unit in and of itself, I'm simply going to point out that using Seven Samurai as your user icon gets you lots of brownie points in my book.

[MVB]

First off, I think the list is fulffy-ish and cool ... will probably look very thematic and appropriate on a tabletop.

HQ
Command Squad - 240
Straken, Officer of the Fleet, Astropath, Medic, Flamer

Having seen Straken in action a few times, I question the value of this squad at such a points cost. Straken is a force multiplier, and that's cool ... he's like the Pedro Kantor of the Guard. He's also decently hitty himself ... lots of S7 power weapon attacks that go at initiative (and a decently high initiative at that). Still, he's one-shottably not eternal, the medic isn't going to help against a ton of different wounds given the T3 of the squad for the most part, and it's a heck of a juicy target ... you've got a power armored marine captain with a relic blade basically in straken, but he's surrounded by 90 points of guys who die to multilaser shots almost instantly, and a further 50 points of guys who ... well, also do just the same thing. I think you'd be better off using Straken in an army with a veritable swarm of guardsmen and tons of cheap power weapons. I don't know if he's well suited to your particular list. At the least, 240 points is a lot to pay for that unit ... you're going to want to keep it safe at times with the astropath/officer, b/c you'll need them tactically to ensure enemies don't arrive or that you do arrive (and I love having both, by the way). That said, straken inherently wants to get stuck in ... so the squad's a bit at odds with itself.



TROOPS
Platoon Command Squad - 145
Al' Rahem, 3x Plasma guns
Chimera - 55
Multi-laser, heavy flamer

10x Guardsmen - 120
Plasma gun, Sgt w/ Plasma Pistol, Commissar w/ PW
Chimera - 55
Multi-laser, heavy flamer

10x Guardsmen - 120
Plasma gun, Sgt w/ Plasma Pistol, Commissar w/ PW
Chimera - 55
Multi-laser, heavy flamer

10x Guardsmen - 120
Plasma gun, Sgt w/ Plasma Pistol, Commissar w/ PW
Chimera - 55
Multi-laser, heavy flamer

These all make a lot of sense together, and are going to kill a lot of marines. I'm sure you'll also kill lots of your own guardsmen with that much plasma, but something tells me you know that and don't mind, and I say go for it. When early rumors of the IG codex made it sound like first rank fire, second rank, was going to affect ALL rapid fire weapons, I was all ready to field a plasma-spam veteran+command squad army ... sadly, not so ... I think sometimes your plasmaguns will piss you off on BS3 guardsmen, when they miss both shots and kill themselves too. C'est la vie, though, eh?

The commissars are a little pricey ... yeah it's s4 power weapon attacks when straken is nearby, but it's a gamble ... and with one wound each and allocation rules as they are today, it's not unrealistic to see commissars get sniped out of units before they get to fight. That said, they're in chimeras, so that'll protect them mostly. I guess I like your squads, but think they're too expensive for guardsmen.


10x Veterans - 130
3x Meltaguns, Shotguns, Demo charge + Meltabombs

10x Veterans - 130
3x Meltaguns, Shotguns, Demo charge + Meltabombs

I think these are cool as balls. Having playtested melta/demo veterans, I've learned a couple of neat things ...
1) Land raiders will dodge single veterans with meltabombs, on the off chance something really bad happens, which is really funny to see happen.
2) Demo charges will blow up your own stuff often in a mech list, b/c you're going to have lots of big vehicle targets like valkyries and chimeras kinda too near when you are in the best positions to chuck demos. Still ... kind of the point, eh?

ELITES
1x Marbo - 65

Make sure he kills something worth more than 65 points on the turn he lands. That demo charge sure helps make sure of it ...

10x Psyker Battle Squad - 110
I guess these are going in one of the valk squadrons w/ straken, with the vets in the other valk squadron. Or I suppose that's the plan.
I think psyker battle squads are cool. I also think they're really freakin' easy to kill.
I also think Eldar laugh at them.

FAST
2x Valkyrie - 260
2x Rocket Pods

2x Vendettas - 260

Valkyries rock, and are probably over the top broken for their points cost. Cool.

2x Sentinels - 80
2x Autocannon
BS3 autocannons for 40 points is overpriced. Sentinels are still useful at tying up infantry squads and other things if they get the chance. I guess this is an ok buy if you were trying to figure out what to do with those last 80 points, but I generally don't like sentinels, especially in squadrons (they die on penetrating 3's and glancing 5's, which means even a good round of bolter fire can wipe the squadron).

Cool list ... should be fun to play. More min-maxed power lists are going to overwhelm you, IMO. Too many points spent on power sword commissars, souped up straken squad, etc. Not a hit on it, though, I like. I just tend personally toward the min-max.


The fully mechanized nature of your list is its strong point ... certain armies aren't going to be able to do much about prying you out of those things, and you'll have the run of it ... trouble will develop when you face an army that can rapidly start can opening those transports ... and then you've got a bunch of overpriced guard squads taking it up the pooter before you want them to.

[MVB]

I guess I didn't really answer directly your actual "squabbles" with the list ... so here goes with more on point ...

Get rid of the commissars ... more squads in chimeras ftw when all they are is plain jane guardsmen. You're already granting a ton of killpoints ... might as well up your firepower and resilience in objective missions at this point.

I would thin down the command squad any way possible, and get rid of straken, and get a 2nd command squad in a chimera by tweaking here and there. That'll give you the opportunity to order twice as many squads, and potentially allow you to really spam out specials like meltas on both command squads.

Straken is a cool close combat monster, but alone he isn't going to do much (having watched some people play him several times now, and playtested him a lil myself). He's a force multiplier in a guard swarmy army full of power weapon sarges in regular squads. Get 'em all roiled up and rolling forward with flamers and such, and you can set up big massive charges full of 4x#ofsarge I4 S4 power weapon attacks. That's where commissars start coming into play, so that you've got Stubborn Furious Charging Counter Attacking guardsmen en masse.

[paidinfull]

I've been thinking Creed and an outflanking nasty pie plate is what this list needs.

You're right. I'm trying to do too much in this list.

Yes, Eldar with Eldrad or a Seer with Runes of witnessing will mess with them, but the wargear requires them to be on the board, if I'm not mistaken, and for 110 pts I can hold off a turn or two until I'm able to take the farseer out.

With all the mobility it's definitely not impossible but Yes, it is a pretty strong counter to it.

New Psychic Hood however? 24" range... PBS 36" Range... not an issue. B)

I did however just notice recently that the Vets in the CCS are BS4!

Also I've noticed Demo Charges are now just S8... no 2D6 pick the highest for armor pen... am I missing something?

[MVB]

Demo charges are S10 AP1 ordnance, I thought ... maybe I'm missing something ...

Entirely possible ... I'll check my guard codex when I get home.

I think if you pull off the commissars, medic, Sentinels and straken alone, you save ... 245 points.

That'll get you a 2nd command squad w/ 4 meltaguns in a chimera, with 100 points to spare.

[paidinfull]

Unfortunately that won't work with my theme even though the CCS is awesome.

Here's what I did:
Dropped Straken
Dropped Medic + Flamer
Dropped All the Commissars... great for the 30+ guard squad but not 10 man... too much
Dropped the Sentinels... which go with the theme but in my years of running IG never had any success with them.

Added Creed... he allows one unit to gain Outflank/Scout, can do 4 orders a turn @ 24" which means I can keep him back a bit.
Added 2x Banewolf - Giving them Scout and a Heavy Flamer, means they come in 12" and drop 4 flamer templates 2 which wound on a 2+ AP3 and 2 HVY Flamer. Chem cannon = S1 so it's... technically a defensive weapon.

[paidinfull]

Demo charges are S10 AP1 ordnance, I thought ... maybe I'm missing something ...
.

S8 AP2 6" range Assault 1, Large Blast, One Shot

They used to also use the Ordnance rules.

[MVB]

I totally dig the banewolves. Rockin' amendment, given the thematic limitations.

Sux on the demo charge changes .... wasn't aware they'd been nerfed; still potent, I suppose.

[paidinfull]

Yeah I think next month those will be the changes I add.

Demo charges... They were always S8 AP2 but they had the 2D6 pick the highest rule... or so I think, memory is a little hazy as I never ran em.