DAWN OF WAR 2 MULTIPLAYER BETA - WHO IS IN?

[MVB]

Soulstorm owners can start the beta on January 21

All people can start the beta on January 28


I'll be there 1/21

Who else?

[MVB]

For those who haven't followed it ...


Dawn of War original was a successful game that ran through 3 expansions and numerous awards / years, by Relic Entertainment.

We are all here, in large part, because Relic released the award-winning game Homeworld in 1999, and followed it up with the successful sequel Homeworld 2.
Sold into Relic RTS games as genre-redefining, TLSC (founded in Homeworld original) moved into Dawn of War when it released, and enjoyed success and growth there.


After many years and xpacs, and much adieu, Relic is releasing a brand new game billed as the "sequel" to Dawn of War, but it is a sequel in setting only.

While it remains a fast-paced, graphically stunning tactical RTS, Dawn of War 2 uses aspects of Relic's RTS COH, and numerous innovations to come up with a brand new style of RTS altogether with Dawn of War 2.

Without more sprucing up by me, the single player campaign is from the Space Marine race p.o.v., with a non-linear storyline and a tactial / quasi-RPG style of army development and deployment.

The multiplayer includes a cooperative version of the single player campaign, and also a more traditional RTS with some base-building and the ability to play any of the four races present in the campaign - the planet-consuming hive-mind Tyranid, psychically-powerful and numerically limited Eldar, primitive but brutal Orks and the "good guys" of the series, the genetically-enhanced, superhuman Space Marines.

For reference, much of the inspiration behind the Starcraft races is pulled from the Warhammer 40,000 Universe, which is where Dawn of War is set. The "Terran Marines" of Starcraft are less-beefy versions of what Space Marines are in the WH40k universe.

http://community.dawnofwar2.com is the link for upcoming game news

Here are some especially pleasant video or image links I like ...

1) Cinematic trailer (really stunning video) - http://community.dawnofwar2.com/blogs/?p=351

2) In-game screenshots - http://community.dawnofwar2.com/blogs/?cat=25


One of the things that's very appealing about Relic games is that while they design innovative, rock-solid and fun RTS, they also create brilliantly attractive settings in which they occur. Cameras are infinitely maneuverable, letting you view from almost any feasible angle, and letting you zoom in as close to the action as you want. The action itself is different from your standard boring "repetitive animation and steadily declining health" RTS, in that while the hard math of combat is predictable enough, the "skin" of their animations covering it is anything but. All units in the game have interactive "synch" animations that occur on deaths and other events, so things like a raging monster killing a marine isn't just the marine dying the same old way ... instead, it might pick him up, bite him in half and toss the remains across the combat zone ... or it might impale him on its talons, or any sort of gribbly nasty way to die.

From the point of view of an admitted fan, this is an exciting release ... and a good opportunity for WoW players (like myself) to get a change of pace on off nights. I'd love to see some HotC'ers hop into the beta with me and take a look-see.

[WarriorNecron]

I'll be there from the start!

[Darkvoid]

For the Emperor!?


I'll snag the beta on the 28th, I have DoW + expansions up through Dark Crusade, but not Soulstorm.

Mylene does though!!

[Bogger]

well, considering I'm running the fecking competitions >.<

I wonder if fell is "in" :D

[TaiNteD]

I'm in on the 28th then, got all DoW and expansions except for SS. =\ Hope to see yall' there!

[Fragman]

I will be jumping on it also, DoW2 breathing some life into the command I see.

[MVB]

Haha, we've got over a hundred WoW players in the Command ... just the HotC forums are private to keep spam out.

So we have lots of life, just not in RTS these days ... but this might make things interesting.

[MVB]

Played it for the first time last night - very solid at a first glance.

Multiplayer is coh'ish, to a degree ... one major base where unit building occurs, terrain is mega important, upgrades done on units rather than in building, requisition points seem non-reinforceable, putting major emphasis on protection via maneuver, rather than protection via listening post upgrade.

Liking it so far, but limited experience (only a couple games last night b4 bedtime).

[Spulm]

I am in. add me to friendlist: spulm@hotmail.com

[MVB]

OH MY GOD SPUL

[Spulm]

Harrr :D

[Fragman]

Haha, we've got over a hundred WoW players in the Command ... just the HotC forums are private to keep spam out.

So we have lots of life, just not in RTS these days ... but this might make things interesting.

Well yeah WoW dosen't count dude lol :P

EDIT: DLing yee

[eXoRciSt]

fuck im still using my emachine idk

[TaiNteD]

I've played a few games here and there randomly, haven't really had a chance to try the later games but it's definitely not DoW, but I have to admit I like it. It's much more competetive in how you need to fight for the map, which is actually pretty fun, it's just really micro intensive in larger fights.

[MVB]

It can be micro intensive, but it's not too too bad, really. The micromanagement required for each unit is intense, but the # of units you have to micro isn't, nor is the # of buildings / differing build queues / etc.

I give this game an A+ so far ... need to see the way they implement changes in patches, and how the campaign is.

[TaiNteD]

Yeah, it's pretty crazy how fast you lose units, but generally you can get them back rather quickly.

From what I've played I'd give it an A+, but I think that it's going to lose a lot of it's replay value quickly, but then again I've only played on one map and there are rather few options. I'm hoping that by the time the real version is released there will be a lot more units and such.

I have to admit I'm very impressed with the way it plays with balance between defense and offensive, but melee seems a bit powerful to me at the moment, and Tyranids are rather insane as far as I can tell.

Just gotta' get some more peeps in here to play with!

[MVB]

Well, like with COh, you should NEVER lose an actual unit in competitive player. Losing individual members of units is one thing, but if you aren't fallig back as soon as you're outgunned, and if you actually get something KILLED, you're doing something wrong.

[TaiNteD]

Yeah, by unit I was more specifying singular members, or if I forget about a unit (or my leader, which happens far too often) they can die off just extremely fast, so you really have to be careful to make sure you've got an eye on all your units and don't text in games. *Whistles.*

[MVB]

THAT'S WHAT MICROPHONES ARE FOR!

[Theroc]

The responsiveness of retreat is a bit annoying.

I also believe that it's important to have squads that can overpower others, but not to the extent that this game allows. If you have a light melee squad, they should be able to last more than 4 seconds vs. a squad that is designed to obliterate melee.

I can appreciate the attention they are paying to diversification of armies, but it still seems like some squads overpower others far too quickly. You should have time to encounter, assess (say a 5s window), and react (retreat, stay and fight, regroup). In this game, if you get jumped, the squad is dead instantly. Given the fact that you're not really allowed to lose units in this game... I don't know. I would prefer that the value of a squad be somehow reduced or that they allowed for more reaction time by making the diverse squads more balanced.

This is a complaint about the gameplay. This game has some great potential.

[Cofrancesco]

One Really good strategy that almost never fails is to pick Tyranids and make tons of ripper swarms and take just about everything right in the beggining, usually have the opponent to 200ish resources before they can take anything back, but after that point just start building the warrior units, mixxed with some mines and ripper swarms and it;s a pretty easy win.

Warrior[to kill things at a victory point]+ripper swarms[to cap points] + mines=win, combined in a group that is.

I enjoy playing it and it doesnt make me want to punch peoples stomach plugs out:

[MVB]

Oh jeesh, Cofran's playing it now ....


Roc, watching you play it here and there, I'm not surey I follow w/ you on the responsiveness of retreating or not ... in that I've never really had a problem with it or anything.

The real keynote is you need to learn to be able to evaluate an incoming situation preemptively. If you're slow to realize you've been out-played, or if you get badly out-micro'ed by an equivalent force, you SHOULD lose units trying to run away ... Fall Back IMO should be for people who are astute enough to realize they've been out-maneuvered, *or* (due to the uncontrollability) for people who try to use it as a way to cheese.

[Theroc]

My argument is that the time to react with some squad encounters is literally zero. I can understand how a squad that is designed to rape melee will completely own a squad of light-armored infantry, but what I do not understand is that I am given about 0.5 seconds to react to that realization.

Increasing the amount of hit points on pretty much everything would be a good start. It would give you more time to react and proactively retreat. The game responds to retreating in a timely manner, but if I have a split force and the force I'm momentarily not looking at gets raped in one second, I'm pretty pissed off given the time value of those forces.

I'm not even talking losing particular units of a squad. I will literally lose a scout squad in one second flat. If that time were increased to 5 seconds, at least I could get my ass moving out of there when I realize I'm SOL.

[MVB]

I think once you've mastered the vulnerabilities in the game, Roc, you'll find the reaction time required isn't as big a deal anymore.

That is to say, if you see a squad of assault marines anywhere freaking near a unit that can't take it in cc, you'd better already be reacting. If you don't know that assault marines kill your light squad or shooty squad, well ... you'll learn, and in the future react more effectively.

Maybe I haven't seen it yet b/c I know what all the various units in the 40k fluff are likely to do ... if I see warp spiders, I know my infantry better run the fuck away, etc.

I get what you are saying, but don't wonder if it's a little less extreme than you've experienced so far, once you get a little more into the flow of things.

[Belhothar]

Hello all, I was invited in by MVB, so ya :stupid: . I've been playing for about a week now and thought I'd throw in my two cents. Preface it by saying this is mostly 1v1 observations.

I think the biggest adjustment this game asks for compared to other RTSs is that it really wants you to be focused on your troops 100% of the time. A successful fight is won through the proper positioning and use of abilities of your troops as much as, if not more than, the relative composition of forces. Given how fast some units can drop if put into the wrong position you really need to be on the ball moving your boyz/gals/andriods/amorphous-blobs-of-bio-plasma into the right spot.

Unfortunately, the learning curve on this can be quite high, since the ranked matches aren't great at putting like skill vs. like skill. I know the biggest change in my game happened when I spent an hour or so going against the AI (whose expert level really isn't that expert) to be the best way to get your feet wet.

After a few games against the AI I found that the game had slowed down a lot. Those times where I was still trying to figure out what was going on as my guys dropped around me turned into me inflicting similar suffering on my opponents :samurai:. (smileys on this board rock!)

The thing to realize is that while it's possible to come back in a game where you're down, most games are decided pretty early. I find that after using my initial units to grab a few power nodes and the first VP node (req nodes aren't nearly as critical) I want to have most of my forces concentrated when going after the last uncaptured node. This might slow you down a bit in overall economy development, but it makes it much more likely that you'll survive the first encounter with the opposing forces, and this first encounter is where the game seems to be won and lost.

The reason is that if you hit hard and fast you can generally wipe out an opposing commander and 1 other unit which is such a resource hit that it's hard for the opponent to ever come back. That's also why running at literally the first hint that things are going wrong is so critical. Resource gathering is relatively slow enough that keeping troops alive really is the name of the game.

I really think that 1v1 the game comes down to who can win the first 4 minutes, it really seems to be rare for a game to be decided after that (although they can drag on if two equally skilled players are going at it).

My 3v3 experience is much more spotty, but my sense is that as with most co-op games it will come down to which team coordinates better, and not necessarily who is twitchier or who has the more perfect build order.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter, more than happy to elaborate on specific matters if there are any other questions/comments/concerns.

[Theroc]

BILIUS!

(it's dashfork)

:bigtee:

[Wiyld]

Manatees (family Trichechidae, genus Trichechus) are large, fully aquatic marine mammals sometimes known as sea cows. The name manatí comes from the Taíno, a pre-Columbian people of the Caribbean, meaning "breast".[1] They contain three of the four living species in the order Sirenia, the other being the dugong, which is native to the Eastern Hemisphere. The Sirenia are thought to have evolved from four-legged land mammals over 60 million years ago, with the closest living relatives being the Proboscidea (elephants) and Hyracoidea (hyraxes).

Physical characteristics

Manatees are mainly herbivores, spending most of their time grazing in shallow waters and at depths of 1-2 meters (3-7 ft). Much of the knowledge about manatees is based upon research done in Florida and cannot necessarily be attributed to all types of manatees. Generally, manatees have a mean mass of 400-550 kg (900-1200 lb), and mean length of 2.8-3.0 m (9-10 ft), with maximums of 3.6 meters and 1,775 kg seen (the females tend to be larger and heavier). When born, baby manatees have an average mass of 30 kg.

On average, most manatees swim at about 5 km/h to 8 km/h (1.4 m/s to 2.2 m/s; 3 to 5 miles per hour). However, they have been known to swim up to 30 km/h (8 m/s; 20 miles per hour) in short bursts. Manatees inhabit the shallow, marshy coastal areas and rivers of the Caribbean Sea and the Gulf of Mexico (T. manatus, West Indian Manatee), the Amazon Basin (T. inunguis, Amazonian Manatee), and West Africa (T. senegalensis, West African Manatee). A fourth species, the Dwarf Manatee (T. bernhardi) was recently proposed for a population found in the Brazilian Amazon,[3] although some have questioned its validity, instead believing it is an immature Amazonian Manatee.[4] Florida is usually the northernmost range of the West Indian Manatee as their low metabolic rate makes cold weather endurance difficult. They may on occasion stray up the mid-Atlantic coast in summer. Half a manatee's day is spent sleeping in the water, surfacing for air regularly at intervals no greater than 20 minutes.

Florida Manatees (T. m. latirostris) have been known to live up to 60 years, and they can move freely between different salinity extremes; however, Amazonian Manatees (T. inunguis) never venture out into salt water. They have a large flexible prehensile upper lip that acts in many ways like a shortened trunk, somewhat similar to an elephant's. They use the lip to gather food and eat, as well as using it for social interactions and communications. Their small, widely spaced eyes have eyelids that close in a circular manner. Manatees are also believed to have the ability to see in color.

They emit a wide range of sounds used in communication, especially between cows and their calves, yet also between adults to maintain contact and during sexual and play behaviors. They may use taste and smell, in addition to sight, sound, and touch, to communicate. Manatees are capable of understanding discrimination tasks, and show signs of complex associated learning and advanced long term memory.[5] They demonstrate complex discrimination and task-learning similar to dolphins and pinnipeds in acoustic and visual studies.[6]

Manatees typically breed only once every other year, since gestation lasts about 12 months, and it takes a further 12 to 18 months to wean the calf. Only a single calf is born at a time and aside from mothers with their young or males following a receptive female, manatees are generally solitary creatures.[7]

The main difference between manatees and dugongs are the tails.[8] A manatee tail is paddle-shaped, while a Dugong tail is forked, similar in shape to a whale's.

Diet

Manatees are herbivores and eat over 60 different plant species such as mangrove leaves, turtle grass, and types of algae, using their divided upper lip. An adult manatee will commonly eat up to 9% of its body weight (approx 50 kg) per day. Manatees have been known to eat small amounts of fish from nets.[9]

Like horses, they have a simple stomach, but a large cecum, in which they can digest tough plant matter. In general, their intestines are unusually long for animals of their size. The adults have no incisor or canine teeth, just a set of cheek teeth, which are not clearly differentiated into molars and premolars. Uniquely among mammals, these teeth are continuously replaced throughout life, with new teeth growing at the rear as older teeth fall out from further forward in the mouth. At any given time, a manatee typically has no more than six teeth.[7]

Population
Approximate distribution of Trichechus; T. manatus in green; T. inunguis in red; T. senegalenis in orange

The population of manatees in Florida (T. manatus) is thought to be between 1,000 and 3,000, yet population estimates are very difficult. The number of manatee deaths in Florida caused by humans has been increasing through the years, and now typically accounts for 20%-40% of recorded manatee deaths.[10] There were near 300 registered and confirmed manatees in Florida killed by human activity in 2006; the majority of these, that happened to be discovered by Florida Fish and Wildlife, have been caused by boat strikes.

Accurate population estimates of the Florida manatee are notoriously difficult and have been called scientifically weak; with widely varying counts from year to year, some areas show possible increases yet others decreases, with very little strong evidence of increases except in 2 areas. However, population viability analysis studies carried out in 1997, found that decreasing adult survival and eventual extinction is a probable future outcome for the Florida manatees, unless they are aggressively protected.[11] Manatee counts are highly variable without an accurate way to estimate numbers:[12] in Florida in 1996, a winter survey found 2,639 manatees; in 1997 a January survey found 2,229; and a February survey found 1,706.[6] Fossil remains of manatee ancestors show they have inhabited Florida for about 45 million years.

The Amazonian Manatee (T. inunguis) is a species of manatee that lives in the freshwater habitats of the Amazon River and its tributaries. Their color is brownish gray and they have thick, wrinkled skin, often with coarse hair, or "whiskers." Its main predator is also man. The Brazilian government has outlawed the hunting of the Manatee since 1973 in an effort to preserve the species. Deaths by boat strikes, however, are still common.

The African Manatee (T. senegalensis) is the least studied of the three species of manatees. Photos of African Manatees are very rare; although very little is known about this species, scientists think they are similar to the West Indian Manatees. They are found in coastal marine and estuarine habitats, and in fresh water river systems along the west coast of Africa from the Senegal River south to the Kwanza River in Angola, including areas in Gambia, Liberia, Guinea-Bissau, Guinea, Sierra Leone, Côte d'Ivoire, Ghana, Mali, Nigeria, Cameroon, Gabon, Republic of the Congo, and Democratic Republic of the Congo. Although crocodiles and sharks occasionally kill manatees in Africa, their only significant threats are from humankind due to poaching, habitat loss, and other environmental impacts. They live as high upriver on the Niger as Gao, Mali. Although rare, they occasionally get stranded as the river dries up at the end of rainy season and are cooked for a meal. The name in Sonrai, the local language, is "ayyu".

[Ifro]

damn you wiyld. we don't care about the manatees.

[Lord_Ulrik]

Im in as well and it seems some old fellas as well.
Bogger, I saw you in dow.de TS but I didnt realized it.
Sit there, and thought, damn, who´s dat snotlin? :D

IngameNick/GfWl: GorbadIronfist

[Bogger]

you're just a noob, is the problem, ulrik :P

[Lord_Ulrik]

you're just a noob, is the problem, ulrik :P


Yeah, the greenest noob of da noobs :D

[MVB]

I'm an old fart, in gaming terms. My teef fell out ... either dat or sum ork took 'em.

[mylene]

As DV mentioned, I had SS... but was lazy and didn't install Steam until it was already open to the public!

At first, I didn't mind the format change from DoW1 with the focus on smaller, skirmish like forces, or the lack of base building. This is closer to the table top game in a sense (even tho DV and I would enjoy building up massive fortresses in DoW1+expansions).

Anyways, I was having fun with it until the patch hit. With it, the army I wanted to play, Eldar, got totally hosed. 3v3, which is also where I was "having the fun at", is apparently broken too when it comes to resources.

Ontop of it all, as discussed earlier by Belhothar, with so much of how you'll do governed by the first few initial encounters, there really is no option to lick your wounds and stage a comeback.

Sadly, even tho this is all beta and things could change by retail, I'm now riding the fence on buying DoW2. For me, this is sort of a dramatic reversal since before the beta I was actually planning out a whole new comp build to run the game (as DV can attest with all the pestering I give him).

/sigh

[MVB]

The devs have already acknowledged impending fixes to bugs and overnerf of Eldar.

They aren't going to fix it a zillion times in beta ... it doesn't work that way in an RTS business model.

That being said, the game is rock solid, and as far as the slippery slope, I don't think that's accurate at all ... at least for me. I've found more than any other RTS to date (that I've played), there's ENORMOUS forgiveness and recovery time.

My $.02

If you're this fast to judge it as dead forever boo hoo from a patch where the devs have already acknowledged errors, though ... I don't think you'll wind up happy with it regardless of what they do.

[MVB]

Mylene and others - 0-day patch notes are up on the community.dawnofwar2.com frontpage

Highlights include:

Nade spiking fixed

3v3 req rates / spammyness fixed

HT venom cannon reduced somewhat in damage

Adrenal warriors reduced from 60dmg to 52 (originally were 42)

Suppression fixed, rippers less nasty and slightly pricier

Several others

No major balance tweaks, other than slightly nerfing hive tyrant venom cannon and adrenal gland warriors

[Abyss]

I'm waiting for it to be available here!!

[Psy]

99% chance i wont be playing it. Reasons:

Played a few days with beta - won most easily but game is dumbed down to constantly running around for (various) points and weilding 3 units. So im not saying this because omg i cant win anymore.

Tactics - sure.
Strategy - zero.
Depth - about as deep as a morning mist on a blade of grass.
Fun - i have seen more fun in a bowl of oatmeal.

Maybe it just rubs me the wrong way, or maybe its the horrid interface (thats a minimap? - thought it was my GFX dying) but i will be in QL.

HF you all.

P.S. In best Relic developing tradition game went gold BEFORE beta, least i got a chuckle out of it.

[MVB]

Beta was a multiplayer comp balancing session, there was a 0-day patch.

Not going to argue with years-later-still-sandy Psy :)

It is a tactical RTS, though. Fortunately, they've gotten rid of base building and other crap.

Coop very hard campaign is a ton o' fun.

No Homeworld, but solid and entertaining game.

Sup Psy, you still an ornery never happy when gaming type?

[Psy]

I'm not happy with shit, very happy when a game works.

You'll find me way too busy to argue why mediocrity shouldn't but unfortunately is SOP, even valiantly defended for the prize of being thought of favorably, as a pleasant type.

And after all since when is stating an individual opinion considered an argument you feel a need not to engage in? Its my opinion, you can have yours, and I couldn't care less.

Simply voting with the wallet, and verdict = fail.

You'll find me in QL, closed beta has been closed today but is reopening tomorrow for everyone else.

http://beta.quakelive.com/ and http://twitter.com/quakelive

P>S That was a polite statement of my opinion of the game and reasons why I wont be playing it. Never once have I implied anything but that others will like it as evident in my HF comment.

IF you feel that has called for a snippy asinine labeling framed as a question you can always go the simpler route and simply delete my account.

[MVB]

http://nataliaantonova.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/tampon1.jpg

<3 Psy, missed you


Oh and if you re-read, I wasn't arguing w/ your opinion at all.