Lance being sued by epic

[Fragman]

Jeff Morris
<Jeff.Morris@epicgames.com> to me
Show options 12:20pm (5 hours ago)
We're forwarding your information, including the 4 keys you've
attempted to use since the ban was placed, to our attorneys.

Jeff
- Show quoted text -

He was banned from the master server for no apparent reason.

on this note do you think epic should have taken these actions

[Karmashock]

more information.

[Fragman]

o yea forgot he cheated 2 times then epic banned him from the server then he use 4 diffrent cd keys to try and log on

[Yameneko]

Is that all he did? Just cheat and use different CD Keys?

[Karmashock]

Technically they may be able to sue him for cheating.


The CD keys... were they his? or did he 'generate' them?

Because he can get in a lot of trouble for doing that. But only if they use a rather disingenuous argument. They might try to bring him up for software piracy. However, if he did buy game the first time, then they can't claim that since he has a legitimate license to use the software.


so... I think the worst they can get him for is cheating in a game... which I can't imagine would be much of an offense.


Still, going to court is always expensive and it wouldn’t be worth it for him to fight them. Likely best to settle out of court.

[tom]

I dunno what they could charge him with... trespassing on their servers...?

[Karmashock]

the game environment is theirs... if you cheat and make it un-fun for other people then you're damaging their business in the same way that a person who stands up after eating in a restaurant and starts randomly screaming and ruining the environment. It could be argued that such a person reduces the likelihood that people will play/dine there... and you can sue people for that.


Like I said, it's weak...


I'm guessing that they're going to try and get him for software piracy, which is a specious argument… but it can mean big fines or maybe even jail time… They can’t win that argument unless the defense lawyer is a drunken retard… but, like most law suits, they’re trying to scare you. I’d suggest you settle out of court… they might be happy if you just promised not ever enter any of their servers ever again.



This is a good example of why the winning side should be reimbursed by the losing side for the prosecution or defense of their case. To the righteous go the spoils.

[Fragman]

And it can be taken as modifying the software in a way that effects the way it works with out permission from the developers and this is y cracks are not legal

[Karmashock]

are you guessing or did they actually say that?

[Shackled Phoenix]

Nah this is kind of taking it to the extreme. it's hard to believe they would file a lawsuit for that, perhaps he recieved several warning already? If all he did was what was mentioned in your letter, i think this is taking it a bit too extreme.

[Polaris]

is it possible the attorneys say "this is a stupid case, youre not gonna get anything out of it" and epic decides to just give it up?
and can you really sue a minor? i know you can sue parents, but...

[Karmashock]

read the Eula.

[Shackled Phoenix]

been there, done that, never again, was the biggest waste of my life evah.

[laserflip]

the game environment is theirs... if you cheat and make it un-fun for other people then you're damaging their business in the same way that a person who stands up after eating in a restaurant and starts randomly screaming and ruining the environment. It could be argued that such a person reduces the likelihood that people will play/dine there... and you can sue people for that.

but they dont get money for people playing in the game servers at all, like you get money when someone patronizes the restaurant. they get money by people BUYING the game. the online gaming deal is just a draw for people to do so

[Karmashock]

yeah, but it could be argued that cheating makes it less likely that people will enjoy their game and recommend it to friends or buy the next version. Furthermore, if you read the Eula you may be giving up a lot of rights just by playing the game.

You maybe saying that you're agreeing to pay certain fines or whatever if log on and piss people off...


I'm really good with civics and my father was a contract lawyer... so I have a working understanding of a lot of this... but I wouldn't pretend to be an expert.

My feeling is that he's probably safe from anything but having to pay legal fees... which often cost more then the court settlement... which is why I suggest he avoid having to use a lawyer as much as possible. Court lawyers are fucking bastards... My father was corperate contract lawyer... so his whole purpose to make sure the people he worked for didn't get screwed in deals.


Anyway, avoid court.

[Eadig]

I'll tell you what it is right now

it's breech of contract...

in the terms of service it says that you agree not to use any third party program to alter the program in a way that ruins other people's enjoyment.

also... would you buy 4 copies of the same program just for the CD key? no...

when you do something to contradict the terms of service... you are basicly breaking a Contract. which then they can take legal action.

there was something about ruining other player's enjoyment of a game... indeed you are right. and I'm glad he was caught doing it... I knew that little shit was using something to get better aim in instagib, lmao... I'm frankly not surprised. he was playing to well to be doing it by his own merrit... I bet his parents are not happy with him one bit... he's like 15 or something...

well... you see that's what happens when you do shit wrong and you are a loudmouth about it... he drew too much attention to himself... and pissed off too many people... you can't get away with illegal shit if you draw attention to yourself.

that's why REAL hackers NEVER Brag about what they do... REAL criminals ALWAYS Deny it... Not brag about it like so many teens do...
Let it be a Lesson to the Rest of you... nothing good comes from bragging, putting down other people, flaming... any of that Childish bullshit...

Most importantly... Grow up and quit fucking around with other people's shit... you violate someone else's right to enjoy life... and you will be punished...

[Karmashock]

the legal action that can be taken is pretty limited when the actual damages are so small.

this is primarily to scare the guy...

[JADezimar]

Eula's are often times disregarded by judges in court. Reason being any person that badly wants to play a game will sign a eule despite what is in it. Mosts Eula's are easily abusable by the company writing it. So courts usually do not favor Eula's.

[Shackled Phoenix]

It's still a legal, agreed upon contract. If i sign a lease to an apartment without reading it because i want that apartment really badly, i still have to abide by it. Where he may be able to get away with things is
1. He is a minor, against whom contracts are VERY hard to uphold
2. Can they prove HE was the one that installed the game, AND clicked that little checkbox saying "I agree" Most likely whoever the registered copy is too (prolly him) will be the only one they can hold legal responsibility against, and even then... most games offer a "register later" button, so there's another legal resort for him.

I'd say go with karma though, Go for the settlement unless it's some outrageous sum, because court costs will prolly kick your ass, especially since they'll prolly have a team of specialist lawyers going against your one, prolly non specialist, lawyer.


Finally, That'll teach you to cheat you god damn n00b.... stuid friggen hackers.

Edit: just reread the first post, Did they actually file a lawsuit or legal action or just say they forwarded the info to their attorneys?
If all they said was forwarded to their attorney's it's probably a scare tactic, and even if they do take legal action, the most likely course will be to file a legal injunction against accessing the server/s. So... good news huh? Although if they do file a legal injunction, whatever you do, DON"T TRY TO ACCESS THE SERVER. at they point they DAMN sure aren't playing around.

[JADezimar]

Shackled Ive talked to lawyers on this subject, several of them have said that many cases the Eula is often times ignored. Do to reasons you pointed out, and the reasons I pointed out. I was not just making this shit up. If you are wondering I have taken law classes, and have associated with lawyers every so often. (I know it does not make my word supreme, but it means I did not make that shit up)

Chances of this going to court are slim too none. Even if the company won anything it would costs them more for lawyers fee's than they would win. (Just cuase you win your case in court does not mean your fees are payed for by the losing party) In fact the times that a winning party gets lucky and there lawyers are paid for is when, the case was so severe the judge sees it to be the lasts possible choice for the plaintiff to take the defendant too court.

Ive been involved in a couple of my own civil courts, I have been in criminal court, have taken courses of law, have a family friend that deals with civil and family court, and have a personal friend that is a prosecutor (The one that was on my criminal case.) So I again repeat I did not make that shit up. Opinions of whether it is a contract or not is purely subjective to the judge and who's lawyers can prove a better case. Law is not all cut and dry.

DON"T TRY TO ACCESS THE SERVER. at they point they DAMN sure aren't playing around.

I can agree with that. Who knows maybe the gaming company has money to throw around, if that is the case they may take you to court outta spite.

[Forsaken]

Could a company technically sue someone for making a mod?


And I've heard, though it may have been false, that lawyers have successfully argued that so few people read the eula that finer points in it cannot be basis for a lawsuit...

[Phantom]

They have no case... They are just using scare tactics to get him to stop...

[Polaris]

um... isnt this thread like 3 months old?

[Phantom]

probably...