I guess this is a social issue...

[Juggalo]

Ok, you know who TSvsGD is, right? Well the dumbass got a girl pregnant. The girl can't get a hold of him becuase he is on vacation. She told me she had to talk to me and asked if I could go to her house. I knew she was serious cause when I got to her house her mom was there looking pretty pissed. TSvsGD is 15 and the girl is 14. He only has a minium wage job and only makes around $100.

Now, I need some advice on how to handle this. Should I Call him now, or wait until he gets back from his vacation?

[Karmashock]

He's not old enough to be an adult... nor is she...

This is for the parents to handle...

I would suggest adoption or abortion... followed by years of abstinence.

He nor she has any commitment on this issue towards marriage etc… they’re too young. The parents of the boy should aid the parents of the girl to resolve the issue.

If anything, as his/her parent… I would separate them permanently… or at least until they’re established enough to deal with raising a family.

So... contact the boy's parents if anyone... there isn't much point to contacting the boy beyond getting him to give emotional support to the girl... ie jack.

[JADezimar]

Ya pretty much agreed. this Girl may even love the child after having it. But the girl nor the boy could give it a good life. And marrying becuase of a child can end up in some really bad relationships later on that could only mean yet again a bad life for the child. And unhappy lives for them. There are plenty out there that want to adopt. Im not a fan of Abortion. But some do what they g2 to do.

[Shackled Phoenix]

Once again agreed, Karma's giving prolly the best possible advice. And really there's not much to add.

[Karmashock]

if we still lived on farms and such, then this would be a different story... the larger family units could take this on and there wouldn't be a problem... but those days have passed at least for now...

[Juggalo]

if we still lived on farms and such, then this would be a different story... the larger family units could take this on and there wouldn't be a problem... but those days have passed at least for now...

We isn't hicks here, boy.




lol

[Karmashock]

Oh?... maybe relable your location then.
Join Date: November, 2004
Location: Conesus, NY (aka Hickville)

[Bentusi]

..

WOW.

Totally of the subject but Juggalo just got owned so hard he's going to be shitting sand for the rest of his life.

PS: I'd take karma's advice

[/<yle]

I disagree with abortion, so i would sugest adoption.

[Karmashock]

she's 14 dude... please... I'm a rep but I often have an issue with the fanaticism on this issue... give the kid a shot or a pill to make that go away... nothing good can come from that aside from a homeless child that 'might' have a good life in with a new family.

[Juggalo]

Wait, why will I be shitting sand?


Also, I live in Conesus, but I'm not a hick. We are surrounded by them. They, they like to stare...:errr:

[/<yle]

People have kids at 14 all the fucking time. Our society says thats a bad thing, however, its how we got along for thousands of years Karm.

[Karmashock]

kids at that age in WHAT societies... NOT western ones... it would be scandalous in deeply Christian society. The ONLY thing protecting this girl is that we're a moderate Christian society. If we were Muslim then she and the boy would be in great deal of trouble.

In OLD Christian societies there is still a good chance that the child would be aborted via the strong hands of the midwife. Christians in this country are too focused on abortion and less focused on creating good members of society and strong families.

I support Christian groups very strongly because this country needs them if it is to survive. However, their primary function is to promote national identity, strong families, and good values. By focusing completely on abortion as they frankly have, they accomplish very little and tend to push moderates away.

[JADezimar]

By focusing completely on abortion as they frankly have, they accomplish very little and tend to push moderates away.

Most of the time they choose the wrong fight.

[/<yle]

Unborn are no less Human. And where the fuck is the privacy clause in the fooking Constitution? im still looking.

[Karmashock]

Kyle, there is no privacy clause in the constitution, but honestly do you want to invest all of our political capital in something that most women cannot support? My father thought much like you did, until I pointed out how strongly my mother disagrees. This is an example of the blindness that many conservatives have to how divisive this issue is. My mother didn't really feel like confronting my father on the issue until I basically forced her to come out with it. This issue can and will KILL our whole movement with nothing to show for it. We can beat them on economic issues, international policy, and many cultural issues. Abortion however is a killing field that will bleed the Republicans white. It is comparable to the blindness that liberals have on Gun laws. Prior to al gore's defeat, the democrats thought that they could ban guns in the US. However, in the last election John Kerry posed with a hunting rifle to demonstrate that his party had given that fight up. Republicans have been in ascendancy and so don't feel rough spots as deeply, however issues like this will kill us if we aren't mindful of them.

As to the lives of children... again... they've been killed like this in western civilization for thousands of years. My own aunt was molested by an estranged uncle and the matter was covered up to save face. In some cases it goes farther and there is rape... and in that situation, I can assure it would have been covered up too. To deny young women the right to quick, no hassle, no questions abortion is something that simply must remain. I disagree with Roe v Wade because it makes light of the constitution and is an abuse of Judicial power. However, I do think that something like that should stand. I however, think it should pass through congress and be official without any sneaky nonsense.

Are little babies alive? Sure... It's not an easy issue... but frankly, this is one for women to decide more then men. It is after all their form we are debating on here. I am unconvinced that you would retain your perspective on the matter if you had a vagina instead of a penis.

Obviously there are some women that agree with your perspective... however, they're unlikely to be anything more then a vocal minority.

Beyond anything else, there is little material gain in this battle. If you win, you will bankrupt the party of resources to pursue other endeavors... so while you might stave off abortion you will guarantee that we all have to suffer universal healthcare and a reinvigorated social welfare system. Hell, they might even get multiculturalism under the door too... and then it's all over. We are a nation of ideas and values. Without those values we are nothing. While abortion is a value, it is not a key value. Notions like property and independence are far far more significant to our way of life and nature. Those values are under assault and require our full defense. Spending political capital on abortion will kill the very core of our country and we will be lost as a people.

Perhaps 20 or 40 years from now we might be able to fight this abortion war... but not today... not now... Other things are going on that can't be delayed... We need strong female support to hold onto and enlarge our power base. Abortion will do nothing more then make happy a portion of the country that will vote for our side one way or the other.

Our entire civilization is at a crossroads... one path leads to a golden age of prosperity and the by and large universality of our values throughout the world. The other path leads to self-indulgence, apathy, and degeneration. I am looking at the big big big picture here... the US is a keystone of western civilization and for it to lead it must be clean and fit. The forces of self-indulgence and apathy are too strong to do anything but confront them full on.

I could go on... but I'm likely rambling... My only point is that this is petty before so many other pressing issues.

[Blacksand]

Agreed there. I personally don't support abortion unless it's cases of rape, ect. That being said, far be it for ME to say a woman's right to have one is illegal. I was going to come into this and make a flippant comment about clothes hangers being a complentary gift with each pregnancy test purchase, but I decided that wasn't what is needed here.

To sum it up, I do not approve of abortion. But I support a woman's right to have one wholeheartedly, because it is HER choice. And in this case, I honestly think it's also the only clear choice to let everyone have a chance at a decent life. It's a case of the good of the many o'er the good of the few. It's a fetus, it has no chance at anything RESEMBLING a normal healthy life or family, and it's better for everyone involved if it quietly dissapears.

Kyle - as to your 'A zygote is a life too!' remark, just exactly when do you consider such a thing as it's own seperate life? At conception? Three months? What? Do you consider sperm as a potential life? Christ, if that's the case than I've killed billions by now. Every time a woman has a period, she's killing a life by your standards, apparently. The fact that you even made that statement is chilling. Unborn are no less Human? It isn't even considered human at this point, at most a fetus and probably not even at that stage yet. Go back to planning a bombing on the local abortion clinic and let the men talk, your speaking rights are revoked.

[Larsson7]

I disagree with abortion, so i would sugest adoption.

Quoted for truth.

[Karmashock]

I'd just like to say again that she's 14. If my little sister was in that situation... first thing would be to just about kill the kid that did it to her... I don't care about her responsibility to keep your legs crossed... If it takes the very real threat of death, I'd be happy set an example for the rest of the community.

There after, if society wouldn't let her have an abortion where we live, then we would fucking travel to get it done. I not kidding... fucking Canada or even Mexico. She's 14... I have never had a sister... but I can imagine it... and there really isn't much I wouldn't do make something like that go away. I would not allow her to suffer the stigma and crushing responsibility of a child at that age. At 17~18.... that's a different story... at 14... That just trips something primal in my brain... I put myself in the position of her brother and all I saw was red. Would I preach to her about the sanctity of life?... that would be the last thing on my mind.

We need more children in this country… but not from 14-year-old girls. Any religious leader that takes that perspective instantly loses my support. I believe in god… I believe that religion is important for this country… I don’t believe in forcing 14 year old girls to have illegitimate children in the name of it.

[allied56]

my opinoin abortion sucks and souldnt be done, just raise the kid and make sure the whole family supports it, and karma your opinions are so strong you sound like a extremist.(but i dont know what for just in general i suppose)

[Karmashock]

Extremist? Realist. Push this nonsense and you'll kill our political capital. It bothers me often I share the same political boat with you people. You have no vision when it comes to the big picture. Put this nonsense off at least. In the future, once this destructive socialism stuff is dead, then push it all you like. Seriously, this sort of thing is putting a lot of stress on the party and there might be a schism. Already the liberatrians broke off because you guys wouldn't chill out which has cost us about 1~3 percent over the whole country. These people seriously either don't vote or vote for morons that can't ever win... that's how pissed they are at this stuff. Seriously, is this what defines you? Is this what you care about more then anything? Because if we proceed down this course there will be very little else we can do. Forget Iraq or spreading democracy. Forget modernizing and streamlining the government... all of that will go out the window and we'll be come the f'ing abortion party. Which is just too god damn silly for words.

Seriously... you need to back up and see how huge this is... and if you really want it that bad... cus' it isn't cheap.

Love and peace, Karmashock.

[/<yle]

Karma, when has it become wrong to disagree? Im saying, a viable Human fetus is life. We all were at that stage, just like we all were in diapers. Blacksand, a sperm cannot be more than a sperm, and an egg no more than an egg. Together they are life. Their just like you, albit at a premature stage. I can compromise, in the case of rape and incest. However, I dont agree with the death penalty either. But i can live with the death penalty, because at least they get a trial.

[Karmashock]

In the case of incest or rape, would you require proof of those actions? Again, I can reference my aunt that was molested by her estranged uncle. If she had been inpregnated, would you insist that she present evidence before a judge? She was a young kid... and our family was being pretty disgraceful about the whole thing... covering it up.

I'm saying we should just back away from the whole issue. Believe what you like, but don't commite our collective political resources to this as it you're unlikely to get what you want and you're more likely to ruin us all.

Please... I'm asking one republican at a time... we need to back off this...

[JADezimar]

Its true when it comes to morals the republican party has the mosts. So if you care about them you need to stick with the republican party.

Please... I'm asking one republican at a time... we need to back off this...

Problem is, it is true this abortion thing will be the end of the party if it continues to be pushed. You also cant push the whole gay and lesbian thing either. I think if republicans and republican supporters backed off these subjects we could win over alot of the often democratic vote and hold in place our other morals and ethics for this nation.

[CELTIC_2X]

hmmm i agree with karma, 14 man way to young to keep, that cant be a option, i hav no problems with abortion but adoption would be as good,

a fetus is life ok this is true but its not a person, it has no opinion no personality no thoughts and no memorys, thats the stuff that makes who we are and wat makes us alive(not in the living breathing sense), so if it meens that the poor child is rasied by a 14 year old then its best not to ruin to lives 4 the sake of something that doesnt even no it exists,

of coures u will argue that it deservs the chance to live but i dont belave that, if the girl grows up and has anouther kid and rasies it properly then u could say that is just the kid that she lost but at a better time, seeing as the kid had no personal atrubrutes then it isnt murder or cruel, cruel would be to giv it a hard life with a 14 year old mum.

and if it were my sister then the guy wouldnt hav any knee caps.

note: i am not religous.

[JADezimar]

note: i am not religous.

Whether you are or not is cool with me. Now I dont mean this offensively just basically making another note. (Plenty of people that are not religious are still against abortion) just an fyi for those out there. I think too many people view the right or far right as religious fanatics when its more often the common US opinion.

[CELTIC_2X]

no i didnt meen that, i no that u dont hav to be religous to be against aportion, it just seemed like something to add on, it didnt hav any real point to it.

[Karmashock]

Its true when it comes to morals the republican party has the mosts. So if you care about them you need to stick with the republican party.



Problem is, it is true this abortion thing will be the end of the party if it continues to be pushed. You also cant push the whole gay and lesbian thing either. I think if republicans and republican supporters backed off these subjects we could win over alot of the often democratic vote and hold in place our other morals and ethics for this nation.
I'm not really interested in winning over liberals to be honest... they're generally not what we want in our party... they want socialism and that just doesn't fly. Libertarians though? That's what we need back in our party. Those guys have as much fire in their gut about economics and government accountability as the religious guys do about abortion... what do you think is better for our country? improving accountablity and economic growth?... or abortion? Pretty obvious really...

[JADezimar]

what do you think is better for our country? improving accountablity and economic growth?... or abortion? Pretty obvious really...

Agreed. I cant say id have ever said abortion accept when I was young and Overly compassionate. But I feel we are in aggreement our nation is pasts the whole abortion thing, anything now is just backlash and for the party to push anti-abortion through while it has the majority seats etc would just be political suicide.

[JADezimar]

Id like to add for debates sake. That the republican party whilst it can, should outlaw partial birth. There is no need for something carried 9 months to be killed off, thats a waste of time. Plus this would strengthen the republican parties supporters and those that voted this time around; that usually dont, might keep voting. So a small action in that direction could be a good thing? My 2 cents.

[/<yle]

Murder is murder. Dosent matter if you push someone off a bridge or throw them in a meatgrinder.

[eXoRciSt]

what if you put poison in their drink eh?

[JADezimar]

Murder is murder. Dosent matter if you push someone off a bridge or throw them in a meatgrinder.

Doesnt matter. The Majority of both political parties. And Majority of the States even C it as ok. Whether it is right or wrong doesnt matter anymore. It will be political death to any party that tries to completely oulaw it. And those that really want an abortion will find a way to kill there child anyway.

[Karmashock]

be careful with banning partial birth abortion... make sure that you don't scare the ladies into thinking it's just the first step into banning it... or they'll crush your ass.

[/<yle]

Women are split on the issue karma. Its a huge wedge issue, many are against it also, do not discount their numbers.

[Karmashock]

I really really doubt you there...

[MVB]

Blacksand, we do carry out said procedure that you mention only the Chinese as doing. Several of the arguments for abortion earlier are extremely weak, but I won't offroad this topic even further by pointing them out; suffice to say, there's a way to argue FOR pro-choice, and it hasn't been used yet.

Adoption would be my suggestion; if they're pro-choice, abortion would work as well. Karma's initial advice was solid, especially the TELL HIS PARENTS part. It's not easy to "tell" on a friend, but you'd be doing he and his knock-up target a big favor if you did so in this circumstance.

[Larsson7]

Meh, we've had this discussion before MVB.
I'm not going to jump back into it espicially since we see eye to eye on it for the most part.

ditto. I was gonna comment but, as you quite rightly said, this has been covered before.