American/Metric system of measurement

[Forsaken]

I've been googling this for the past few days, and google is returning a bunch of conversion websites rather than any useful historical information...

Why the hell would one of the (arguably) most diverse nation in the world use an official system of measurement different from the rest of the world, most of which is united in their measurement system? Can someone who knows their history perhaps link me to some documents relating to this? Who originally preposed these measurement systems? Or were they already there, and America refused to switch to metric?

For that matter, what are you opinions on this? Personally it seems pretty damn stupid to me that there are 5,280 ft to a mile, 3 feet to a yard, 12 inches to a foot, so many suchandsuch+long decimal gallons to the bawhatsits. Don't systems of measurement based on powers of 10 make a lot more sense?

[Karmashock]

We are diverse, which is why we accept BOTH systems. Congress asked the people what they wanted and they said "leave it alone". Therefore the US government did its job and obeyed the will of the people. Neither system is required. Most exported or imported items are labeled in metric units... many corporations use metric... that said, some still use the imperial system... The MOST sophisticated air planes in the world are designed and built with imperial units... Lockheed Martin uses it... the makers of the U2, the SR71, The raptor f-22, and the new Joint strike fighter (which will become the standard fighter of most US allies including the US... ie it takes gallons of gas... not liters :) )... to say nothing of many interplanetary space probes and satellites of various functions. NASA actually crashed that Martian probe because they didn't realize the guidance program was using imperial units... guess they should have read the fucking manual… jackasses.

Anyway, the only way you could get America to use metric units exclusively would be to force it on them... and Americans aren't forced.

For some more background history...
In 1971, the U.S. Secretary of Commerce, in transmitting to Congress the results of a 3-year study authorized by the Metric Study Act of 1968, recommended that the U.S. change to predominant use of the metric system through a coordinated 10-year national program. The Congress responded by enacting the Metric Conversion Act of 1975, calling for voluntary conversion. Amendments to the Act in 1988 designated the metric system as the "preferred system of weights and measures for United States trade and commerce." Measurement science continues to develop more precise and easily reproducible ways of defining measurement units. The working organizations of the General Conference on Weights and Measures coordinate the exchange of information about the use and refinement of the metric system and make recommendations concerning improvements in the system and its related standards. The General Conference meets periodically to ratify improvements. Additions and improvements to SI were made by the General Conference to keep up with technology.

However, a strong movement toward the use of the metric system in the U.S. during the 1970-1980 period lost momentum. Currently the U.S. is using dual measurements, where there is mixed use of the metric and inch-pound systems. A number of large industries and some smaller ones have converted to SI use, but, mainly due to opposition from the U.S. voters, Congress refuses to mandate that the metric system be the sole measurement system in the U.S. However, as metric is the sole measurement language of most of the world, foreign customers buying U.S. products are gradually requiring that they be delivered labeled and produced in metric units; therefore, eventually, the chances are that the U.S. will become a metric nation.

[MVB]

The American system being different is basically stupid; by not being in any way a constant or base-10 system, it sucks for the most part. The American people are stupid, and aren't qualified to make the decision on which system to use -- smart, educated people should have made the decision for them. -end of story- ... the American system is ridonculously stupid.

[tom]

Metric system makes considerably more sense. Thats all I have to say.

[Karmashock]

I really hope you're kidding...

[LardGibs]

Well, as an engineer, I am competent in both systems of units, and can't for the life of me understand why reasonably intelligent people with minds full of considerably less useful information can't make room for both.

Calculations in physical chemistry are slightly easier in SI because 1 N = 1 kg*m/s^2, whereas in 'American Engineering' units you have dynes, poundals, ergs etc.

Engineering calculations in AE are easier because 1 Btu= 1 lb H2O/degree Fahrenheit, whereas in SI it's 4.18 J/g degree C.

Being dumbarses and hoping that the American Engineering units will go away ignores all the major capital equipment built to this system.

[Karmashock]

Lockheed Martin uses imperial units... dur hur her... you know... the makers of the U2, SR-71, F-22, and Joint Strike Fighter... what fucking morons... I mean... they only make the world's most advanced aircraft literally decades ahead of their peers... Do we all remember that space probe that NASA crashed into mars? Lockheed built it... NASA called them when they cashed the thing and went "wtf, your stupid probe was the suck!"... and Lockheed responded "you were supposed to use imperial units when you calculated thrust... noob"

It's fully voluntary... anyone can use any system that makes them happy. If the state of California wanted to put it's road signs in metric I'm sure they could do that... now a better question would be 'why?'... imperial units make a lot more sense in a lot of things... most of the units were naturally derived, which means that it wasn't some scientist that decided how large a 'foot' had to be... it was some guy likely working out fence post lengths for his sheep or something... Imperial units are in most cases far more accessible and relevant... scientists obviously find metric more useful... fine... and scientists or ANYONE else can use them at will. If you honestly want to do what the English do to keep people using metric... ie FINING people that use imperial units... then you can eat shit and die... seriously... I'll get one guy to hold you down, another to open your mouth, and I'll personally crap in your open mouth.

Leave people the fuck alone… no one appreciates your anal retentive nit picking about this and that… oh your system doesn’t start at the freezing point of pure H20 at sea level and move along in units of hundred based on the boiling point of pure H20 at sea level…

Cock juggling thunder cunts (sorry, I had to steal that one), Karmashock.

[Justice]

I think we should use the metric system.

Hell ... even NASA gets the two mixed up.

cheers, and
-=</|awesomeparty|\>=-

[Karmashock]

Even Nasa?... please... That's like saying "even retards can't walk in a straight line"... Messing that up was totally NASA's fault and someone easily lost their job over that one... Actually, I think it was JPL that made that probe and not Lockheed... same difference really...

Anyway, the fact that you think it's acceptable to force people to switch is really my problem. If you think one is better, then fine. If you think you can take money from ME because I prefer to use a different system, then I consider you a thief at best. And in this country, that sometimes means a shotgun blast to back of the head.

Make my day, Karmashock.

[Ummon]

The answer to Forsaken's question though is: because you were never conquered by Napoleon. He was the first to introduce metric system in Europe, then colonialism introduced it in the rest of the world.

I find imperial measures unnecessarily complicated, though I don't see why you shouldn't use them.

[Morpheus]

I'll second MVB on this one. Reason? Simple. We count in base 10 numbers. I mean, if we wanted to start counting in hexidecimal numbers, maybe AE would be more suitable. Overcomplicating ourselves by converting between various bases is what we do when we use AE. It is a good mind workout though, provided that you didn't need a calculator to do it. And building something has nothing to with the measurement system being used; hell, you can use your own thumb width to measure every single part used to build a space shuttle - just get a stick and mark it out accordingly.

[Karmashock]

They're really not complicated though... small children can master it. I mean, most people that almost never use it can get it pretty fast... you can't get any better then that with just having people use it so it becomes second nature.
===========================================
I'll second MVB on this one. Reason? Simple. We count in base 10 numbers. I mean, if we wanted to start counting in hexidecimal numbers, maybe AE would be more suitable. Overcomplicating ourselves by converting between various bases is what we do when we use AE. It is a good mind workout though, provided that you didn't need a calculator to do it. And building something has nothing to with the measurement system being used; hell, you can use your own thumb width to measure every single part used to build a space shuttle - just get a stick and mark it out accordingly.
This is the sort of nonsense that is just annoying... What would you say to having 10 hours in a day. Five hours for the light and 5 hours for the dark? Sure, then you'll have 10 minutes to every hour... so every day has a hundred minutes... and you just keep subdividing eh?

Annoying... Time of day is base 24... Minutes are base 60... months are base 12... so we have inches that are base 12... Oh dear god, we've just make things too complicated haven't we? See what I'm saying? Fuck, we could go with pound the way they used to be... ie having them base 16 then progressing to stone. I personally think Celsius is far less relevant then Fahrenheit... Think about the temperatures that a person actually lives in... 0 to 100 is basically the world that humanity can experience... sure we can go farther on either side in extremes... but from the Eskimos to the African savannah, that's basically it for us humans. Celsius is PURE lab... it's based on the state changes of pure H20 at sea level.... how is that useful? Outside of a lab it's fucking pointless. Don't even bring up cooking as no one takes the temp of their water, they just turn it on till it boils regardless of their unit system. The only thing people take the temp on the kitchen are large pieces of meat… and that has nothing to do with Celsius. When normal people look at the temp, it's to see what it will be like for THEM 'in' that temp. In the US our scientists us metric more then imperial units, because it makes ‘their’ math simpler. Everywhere else our people use imperial units because they're tailor made for normal people, craftsman, and even engineers. Each uses what makes more sense to them. I’ve already pointed out that many of our top engineering firms use imperial units BY CHOICE! And despite their ‘obvious’ stupidity before your unflappable superiority and righteousness… actually make the finest machines of their industry… go fucking figure.

And again, forcing people to use one system over the other?... go fuck yourself.

Love and peace, Karmashock.

[Morpheus]

I bet kids in other countries learn meric much faster than kids in here learn imperial.

[Karmashock]

I bet we learn imperial faster then they do... I bet we also can speak better english then most people in countries that don't speak english...

Getting a pattern?

Same = Same.

[LardGibs]

We count in base 10 numbers.
*sigh*
so what? People who have useful things to do have to do much more than count. The metric system has as many ugly irrational numbers for physical constants as any other. 8.314, 6.02*10^23, 22.4, etc.

Anyway, if you're in one of my classes, you'll have to use both, and work them in the assigned units. end of story. Because of the laxity of this calculator era, we won't sweat it on the significant figures...

And if you were an electrical/computer engineer, expect to have to do arbitrary radix arithmetic as well.

[Morpheus]

Everyday life - metric is easier than imperial. When it comes to professional use, you use whatever you find easier to handle. In ASM programming hexidecimal is natural, using base 10 is awkward and difficult. Learn what you need to use, if it is imperial, then learn imperial.

[Karmashock]

Everyday life - metric is easier than imperial.
Prove it.
All Imperial units were derived by EVERYDAY people choosing figures that best suited their task. Metric was set up by scientists that wanted simplier math.

And as LG pointed out, it's only simple on simple problems. You do anything sophistocated and you run into just as much as the imperial system does.


You seriously can't win here... By their orgins and designed functions the imperial system can't help but win. It's like pitting a sports car v a semi truck... the sports car will never haul the load of the truck as well and the truck will never be able to take those corners at 70 mphs/128.748 kph like the sports car. Metric is good for chemists... imperial is good for people.


give up.

Love and peace, Karmashock.

[Morpheus]

"Hey, what's the temperature outside?"
"36"
"Are the roads frozen?"
"I don't know, what the freezing temperature of the water?"
"Hold on, let me remember my chemistry class..."
"Never mind, I have a Celcius thermometer, it shows 2 degrees, that's above 0, so the water is not frozen, because 0 is alot easier to remember than 32 is...."
"Well is your water boiling yet? How hot is it?"
"180 degrees F"
"And when does the water boil?"
"Let me go get my dictionary, I forgot"
"Nah, just switch to Celcius, water boils at 100, 3 year old kid can remember that after hearing it just once."

"I'd like to buy some fence, my property is 1/4 mile long on one side, and 1/3 on the other."
"Well, we sell by feet, so let me get my calculator and the measurement table, because who the hell can remember how many feet there are in a mile..."
"Yeah, a kilometer is a perfect 1000 meters, so easy to remember and work with...."

"I'd like to buy some meat. I'll take that slab at 16 ounces, that one at 8, and that one at 12. Now I have to pay, but wait, it sells by pounds..... How many ounces there are in a pound again? Together I have 36 ounces, so now I have to divide it by 16... Where's my calculator....."
"Here, use mine. We should use kilograms, 1 kg = 1000 grams, easy to remember and easy to convert between kg and g..."


C'mon, Karma, if you don't see how much easier metric is, then I'm done talking, as there's absolutely no chance you will get even 10% of people who used both regularly to agree with you.

[LardGibs]

Hey, what's the temperature outside?"
"36"
"Are the roads frozen?"
"I don't know, what the freezing temperature of the water?"
32
"Hold on, let me remember my chemistry class..."
"Never mind, I have a Celcius thermometer, it shows 2 degrees, that's above 0, so the water is not frozen, because 0 is alot easier to remember than 32 is...."
"Well is your water boiling yet? How hot is it?"
"180 degrees F"
"And when does the water boil?"
212
"Let me go get my dictionary, I forgot"
"Nah, just switch to Celcius, water boils at 100, 3 year old kid can remember that after hearing it just once."

"I'd like to buy some fence, my property is 1/4 mile long on one side, and 1/3 on the other."
"Well, we sell by feet, so let me get my calculator and the measurement table, because who the hell can remember how many feet there are in a mile..."
5280
"Yeah, a kilometer is a perfect 1000 meters, so easy to remember and work with...."

"I'd like to buy some meat. I'll take that slab at 16 ounces, that one at 8, and that one at 12. Now I have to pay, but wait, it sells by pounds..... How many ounces there are in a pound again? Together I have 36 ounces, so now I have to divide it by 16... Where's my calculator....."
16*2=32 4/16=.25 2.25 lb
"Here, use mine. We should use kilograms, 1 kg = 1000 grams, easy to remember and easy to convert between kg and g..."


C'mon, Karma, if you don't see how much easier metric is, then I'm done talking...

FFS if that's taxing your life management skills, maybe you have bigger things to worry about than the metric system. Like all the brown people who want your job...

[Morpheus]

There are so many of those..... can't count them all, even in imperial system.....

Are you getting off the subject because I'm right?

[Karmashock]

First, EVERYONE that lives in areas where the roads freeze KNOW the freezing temp of water...

Second, you're a moron if you think anyone cooking ever takes the temp of their water... it just doesn't happen... ever.

third, who would say they have a 1/4 of a mile of property in the first place? Seriously... you'd ether express it in acres (which is area, but still useful) or feet. 1/4 of a mile is not precise information. If given that information, I'd obviously buy a little more just make sure. As to distance... how tall are you bright eyes? I'm 6'1". What you keep missing is the fact that imperial units tend to discuss the world in HUMAN terms. Consider 'why' the metric system is base ten? Ten fingers... human... Imperial is WAY more human because it always describes things in relation to the human body or human environment. Name a part of the body that is exactly one cm in length... aside from your penis.

fourth, as to weights... the jump between grams and kilograms is HUGE! Describing everything in between as a fraction of a kilo or hundreds of grams is just silly... and why? just so everything is divisible by ten... any moron can use imperial units and remember that we ALL used to use them. If you don't think they work in the modern world, then look at JPL or Lockheed... you have no case.

Fourth, as to brown people... the Euros have been losing business to everyone in general... They're done... The US on the other hand has something to hold on to... so we should do our best to keep our edge... threatening the euros with losing business is like pointing a gun at a dead man.

Fifth, no we're not off topic... we just think you're funny.

[tom]

6.02*10^23


A MOL!!! :D

[JADezimar]

Name a part of the body that is exactly one cm in length... aside from your penis.

Thats fricken hilarious!

[Karmashock]

Huzzah!
http://www.disobey.com/horror/posters_and_similar/downloads/mole.jpg

[LardGibs]

A MOL!!! :D
actually, a MOLE, or a gram-mole to be specific. In ChE we often use an AE unit called, unsurprisingly, a lb-mole, which is 454 times as big as a g-mole.

Also, Rankine absolute temperature scale, Fahrenheit+479 or some jazz. Kinda on the way out, there's a new motion towards mixed units because a lot of people like the Centigrade scale and mix it with the rest. Usually ez, only a factor of 1.8 to use old trash data from the 40s.

[Karmashock]

I know both systems... I can convert Celsius to Fahrenheit and back again damn near thoughtlessly... I just prefer Fahrenheit.

[Morpheus]

I see you guys will just stick to your side, so I'll go ahead and stick to mine. I cannot believe that anyone would think that basing temperature on the properties of the most common liquid on earth is not the most simplest way to go. How many of you know what the base for Fahrenheit scale is, without using Google?
Karma, how many inches there are in a mile? Maybe not practical, but definetely easier to use kilometers.
And converting between volume and weight is much more ridiculous in imperial, especially when using water's properties.

But you may go ahead and reside in your bliss of ignorance, I'll stick to metric as a base system for myself and will teach my kids the same way. They'll pick up imperial in school and then I'll ask them what they think about it.

[Karmashock]

I see you guys will just stick to your side, so I'll go ahead and stick to mine.
I don't stick to mine because I'm stubborn... if that's why you're sticking to yours, then it is without merit.
I cannot believe that anyone would think that basing temperature on the properties of the most common liquid on earth is not the most simplest way to go. How many of you know what the base for Fahrenheit scale is, without using Google?
Every American with a decent elementary education knows what it's based on.
As to relationships... again, 0-100 F basically describes what humanity can live in... we can go slightly higher and lower... but that's about it. 0-100 C describes nothing but state changes in pure water at sea level. Change it's purity or atmospheric pressure and your numbers start to fall apart.
Karma, how many inches there are in a mile? Maybe not practical, but definetely easier to use kilometers.
Exactly the point... Imperial units ARE practical. Metric is for labs and calculation boards... the farther it gets from there, the less useful it is.
And converting between volume and weight is much more ridiculous in imperial, especially when using water's properties.
Funny that despite that handy cap we still lead the world in so many engineering fields. As LG pointed out, if you're doing anything complicated you'll find that imperial redeems itself in many ways.
But you may go ahead and reside in your bliss of ignorance, I'll stick to metric as a base system for myself and will teach my kids the same way. They'll pick up imperial in school and then I'll ask them what they think about it.
Why even bother teaching your children an inferior system?... ANSWER!

[MVB]

Karma, you're being an ignorant dumbass again; stop it.

[LardGibs]

How many of you know what the base for Fahrenheit scale is, without using Google?

Karma, how many inches there are in a mile? Maybe not practical, but definetely easier to use kilometers.

And converting between volume and weight is much more ridiculous in imperial, especially when using water's properties.

ok, 1.2.3

There are special magic things you can learn called Conversion Factors. Once you know enough of them, you can make any unit from any unit, even SI to AE. *gasp*

Fahrenheit is Centigrade/1.8 + 32
-40=-40 in both scales

If you remember that water boils at 100, you can work out what it is inthe other scale if you can't remember it. Similarly, if you can't remember what STP is in Rankine, you take 273.15*1.8=492.

Inches in a mile, easy as pie. 5280*12. Centimeters in amile, 63360*2.54

Oh wow, 1.609 km/mile, that was easy conversion 8)

Water's volumetric properties and imperial measures?
8.33 lb/gal, 62.4 lb/ft^3, 7.48 gal/ft^3, 231 in^3/gal. 454 g/lb
32 gal/BBL

Just in case it isn't crystal clear, I'm not looking these up on :google: I learned them, you can too.

BOTH SYSTEMS my final word on the subject.

[Morpheus]

Funny that despite that handy cap we still lead the world in so many engineering fields.
Perhaps because all the engineers that actually have a brain in their heads are of foreign origin?

I'd maybe understand why you guys use imperial if I actually used it in here. But hey, for some reason all the chemistry and physics classes I took used metric system..... I guess people who designed education that way are dumbarses for not using the best system - imperial.

[LardGibs]

Perhaps because all the engineers that actually have a brain in their heads are of foreign origin?
I find this extremely offensive, and take it as a personal attack. This is a generalization you'd do well to leave behind.

So a heartfelt Fuck You. <3

[2biT]

Well i use imperial and metric..

Its now ilgeal in the uk for shops to use imperial measurments.. i bet you didnt know that! (god dam EU)

Ps: i break the law everyday in my shop.

As for things like tempature i use like most brits.. farin' for hot and cel' for cold.. 'oh dear what is the temp today? 68 .. hot then' or ' it looks cold out what temp is it dear? 3' Dont you just love the uk!

Ps: i actually used Kelvins in astropsyics, in the lab its all SI units..

As for imperial vs metric..

Its much easyer to use imperial im most situations.. I describe long distances in miles (or parsec's), but small distances in yards, ft and inches. I can never remember hte conversion factors if i was asked to 'go metric' but i dam near know and everyone i speak to knows how far 6 ft 6" is..
Weight:
Its just easyer to use imperial, i know how much 6 pound of meat is but not in kg.I can now know how long i have to cook a turkey for by the number of pounds..

Bottom line:
Metric for you silly yanks and europeans..(and scientists)
Imperial for God, Queen and Country...


2biT the imperial terrorist!

[Morpheus]

Lard, just because USA leads the world in all those fields, it does not mean that that there are nothing but idiots living in other countries. Many scientists move here due to better paying jobs, but they were educated overseas. And if you remember that all of us in here, other than indians, are of foreign origin, if you look back far enough...

I view your guys' responces in here as a statement that other people must be complete morons for thinking that metric is better. I'm ending the arguement from my side, this is not going anywhere but into a flame war.

[LardGibs]

Well fine then.
I've had foreign engineers as students and the only ones who are worth a damn are Indians, the Chinese can go fuck themselves and often do. The best ones come from countries where postsecondary education is competitive but when it comes to doing things for real and hands on.... It's the US and Japan bar none.

I just think it reeks of hypocrisy to claim that metric is easier and then imply that I am an idiot because I don't do things the easy way exclusively? People should be able to do both or :stfu: and let us do it for you.

Remember what I said when you're driving a p.o.s. chinese car and enjoying your plastic fantasies, that disrespecting and marginalizing those few of us left in America who practice engineering was a Bad Idea.

[DrunkenUno]

Thats fricken hilarious!

Seconded.

[Karmashock]

Perhaps because all the engineers that actually have a brain in their heads are of foreign origin?
Actually, many of our top military engineers can't be foreigners... look at Lockheed Martin… The finest aircraft designer in the world… If you look at their engineers, they’re usually 30~50 year old balding Americans. The highly educated foreigners that moved here almost always were educated BY AMERICANS! So your only claim is that we're genetically stupid... which if made will earn you a title by the same name.


Seriously, challenging the US on technology is just pathetic.
==============================
Well i use imperial and metric..

Its now ilgeal in the uk for shops to use imperial measurments.. i bet you didnt know that! (god dam EU)
Yeah, I heard about some guy getting fined for listing the price of meat in lbs. Fucking fascists... (I say this tongue in cheek... I've had euros call me a fascist for supporting capitalism... this fits them more then me.)

Ps: i break the law everyday in my shop.
Fight the machine.

Ps: i actually used Kelvins in astropsyics, in the lab its all SI units
I had an astrophysics course in high school that was really fun (I took another one at the university, and the highschool one was actually harder… I had a really good teacher… he quit to work for Sun Microsystems)... Kelvins are the only way to go there...
=================================
Lard, just because USA leads the world in all those fields, it does not mean that that there are nothing but idiots living in other countries.
Nope, it just means that they don't do anything impressive in science or engineering... the very highest tests of such systems.

So you have no point.

Many scientists move here due to better paying jobs, but they were educated overseas. And if you remember that all of us in here, other than indians, are of foreign origin, if you look back far enough
Actually, they tend to come here more when they need a good education and then they don't leave.

I view your guys' responces in here as a statement that other people must be complete morons for thinking that metric is better. I'm ending the arguement from my side, this is not going anywhere but into a flame war.
Pathetic.

First, YOU said that WE were stupid for thinking imperial was even a 'decent' system. So you're a hypocrite right out of the gate.
Second, we've clearly not saying that people that use metric are stupid. We have repeatedly said that they both have their place and that each is better at different things.
Third, you've realized that you've been crushed in this discussion and so are trying to steal a moral victory in a last desperate attempt before you run away.

You are transparent...

=======================
Karma, you're being an ignorant dumbass again; stop it.
Read above... if you want to stand with Morpheus, then enjoy the fall. The insinuation is baseless and rather insulting.

Love and peace, Karmashock.

[Morpheus]

God damn Karma, when was your last brainwash session?

[JADezimar]

Actully karma thinks for himself. He doesnt follow the normal outspoken path of the usual moron.

[Karmashock]

One thing no one can say, is that I’m brainwashed. I may be wrong, stubborn, or hey... call me evil.

But, I'm my own... I am unique... and no, most people are not unique.

Peace be upon you, Karmashock.

[Ummon]

But, I'm my own... I am unique... and no, most people are not unique.

This phrase stands out as a typical example of neurosis. Truely truely.

[JADezimar]

im gonna google neurosis :P

Well I googled it.

I have phoebia of the water o0

[Larsson7]

This thread blows more than any other thread in the history of the internet.

[MVB]

I disagree; this thread blows more
http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/board/about13236.html

[Larsson7]

I disagree; this thread blows more
http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/board/about13236.html

Fair point.

Can we agree on second worst then!?

[Karmashock]

This phrase stands out as a typical example of neurosis. Truely truely.
if you say so :rolleyes:

[Morpheus]

Karma, being stubborn is one thing, being unable to even consider that someone else might be right and you might be wrong is brainwashing. That's all what's this is about, not which system is better, but rather that you're right and everyone disagreeing with you is wrong.

And as for this :
...

Third, you've realized that you've been crushed in this discussion and so are trying to steal a moral victory in a last desperate attempt before you run away.

You are transparent...

...


You obviously don't see good intentions when they hit you on the head, so I got somethig for you : F*ck you, my friend. Here my take on this issue right now : I'm right, you're wrong. I have used metric system exclusively for years, as I have imperial. You just barely scratched metric in your pathetic school, and used imperial the whole life, so STFU. And your arguements are just as pathetic :
... as to weights... the jump between grams and kilograms is HUGE! ....
What about the jump from feet(or even yards) to miles?

...I bet we learn imperial faster then they do... I bet we also can speak better english then most people in countries that don't speak english...
If you actually look pass your own nose, you'll see that in my statement I said that we learn metric faster than you learn imperial, not that we learn metric faster than you learn metric. This is what proves that I'm right, but you being the ignorant prick you are, you won't get it. Which just proves my point about brainwashing.

[Ummon]

Well Karma, I sincerely think so. You know all those jokes on people who believe they're Napoleon or Jesus Christ? They do think they're unique and everybody else is not too...

Dear Karma, don't get me wrong. I have nothing against you, how could I? But I'm telling you that initially people respect your right to have one or two dumb, wrong, arrogant opinions. Then they patiently suffer the fact that you have nine or ten. Finally, they realize that you believe you are a genius, but in truth you have no clue about almost anything. More so, as you refuse to listen to anyone pointing to you the obvious failures and inconsistencies of your way of thinking.

Now, you might not believe me of course, but if I were in you I would look for a psychologist now. You show evident signs of border-line narcissism. You have two possible destinies in life: social isolation and failure in relationships and business, or success in your line of study/work, but coupled with severe emotional disorders and personal/relational suffering.

Free advice. Happy birthday, by the way. Oh, and note, you are free to disregard my opinions entirely, I might be the one who's mad and you might be always right, of course. But really, it's not a flame. It's trying to help you.

[Karmashock]

Well Karma, I sincerely think so. You know all those jokes on people who believe they're Napoleon or Jesus Christ? They do think they're unique and everybody else is not too...
I don’t think that no one else is unique, I just think it’s rare. Most people are pretty predictable and many are out right simple. I take this to be rather self evident of anyone living on planet earth and therefore don’t feel particularly compelled to support it.

Dear Karma, don't get me wrong. I have nothing against you, how could I?
How could I not? Those lines alone are deeply patronizing, condescending, and likely sarcastic.
But I'm telling you that initially people respect your right to have one or two dumb, wrong, arrogant opinions.
No one need have respect for even one wrong opinion. Everyone has a right to be flawed for all things under the sun are flawed. However, no one has a right to be respected for being flawed. The flawed nature of a person is a thing to be accepted or pitied… not respected.

Then they patiently suffer the fact that you have nine or ten. Finally, they realize that you believe you are a genius, but in truth you have no clue about almost anything. More so, as you refuse to listen to anyone pointing to you the obvious failures and inconsistencies of your way of thinking.
The first point is merely your opinion. The second is just a pathetic and unsubstantiated insult. The third is an out right lie.

I will ignore points one and two as to go into them would be boring and rather mechanical. However, I am interested in three. I am extremely open, but I am not a push over. I require someone to back their nonsense up. I further expect someone else to counter my nonsense (which I will no doubt spout occasionally as I am not perfect.). If you can neither present an argument that can stand reasonable criticism nor successfully attack a flawed argument of mine, then I have no reason to respect your criticism.

As you might have noticed my logic is very tightly wound. I am confrontational by nature and when pushed, I don’t hesitate to dive right into deeply specific and fine points. However, if engaged openly and honestly, you’ll find me to be a very tolerant, fair, and invigorating partner.

The only things I cannot abide are dishonesty and derisive hostility. If either of those things occurs in a discussion, I will immediately drop into combat mode and will not stop until I feel I have established a safe zone. If you find the combat mode abrasive, then don’t stoop to falsehood or attack me outside of the discussion’s core parameters.

As you have done both in this pompous little piece of trash, I cannot help but sustain that stance.

Now, you might not believe me of course, but if I were in you I would look for a psychologist now. You show evident signs of border-line narcissism. You have two possible destinies in life: social isolation and failure in relationships and business, or success in your line of study/work, but coupled with severe emotional disorders and personal/relational suffering.
First, you are not a psychologist any more then I am an aeronautical engineer and both of us are laughably ill equip to comment on fields for which we have little or no understanding of. The mere fact that you presume to make such an assessment demonstrates your consist arrogance and through that hypocrisy in these discussions at least.
Second, I am not a human being. I am Karmashock. I am not a thing of flesh and blood but an idea with no more roots in reality then a story in the world. While a real person drives me, that person merely uses me to communicate in this medium. It is pleasurable for him to assume this form and so I am. Is karmashock full of himself? The user has learned through the years of Internet culture that the bolder a character is the more real it is. As Karmashock is no more then an idea, the more forceful and powerful that idea is the more karmashock exists. I have said many times that this is all Internet to me. Which is true. I do not regard this as reality. People do not act like real people here and so I have assumed a form more at home in this medium. I would say that most of Karmashock’s ideas are held by the user… though in reality he would present them differently. That said, you would also receive both Karmashock and the user differently in reality thereby making the more conventional presentation more appropriate. Point? Psychology has no way to guess at the nature of the user through such a medium… and I am more complex then you likely realize.

Free advice.
Free advice is only offered from superiors to inferiors… This merely continues the condescension.

Happy birthday, by the way.
What does that actually mean by the way? I don’t think I entered my natural birth date into this forum and we haven’t been using it for a year… and even if we had, I haven’t been with TLSC for a year… so… what the fuck does that even mean? I took it to be a forum glitch or a one of the many doodads that the admins hadn’t configured as of yet.

Oh, and note, you are free to disregard my opinions entirely, I might be the one who's mad and you might be always right, of course. But really, it's not a flame. It's trying to help you.
What I object to is the condescension that demonstrates a level of derision in your tone and therefore dishonestly in your good will. Of course I am ‘allowed’ to disagree… I need no license from you there. Even your statement of “I might be mad” is just false humility. You under no circumstances believe it is possible that you are wrong on your points and further seem to think me completely wrong on a great many points while rarely if ever actually confronting me in threads… unless you consider this off topic psycho babble to be a confrontation of my points? I do not see it as such. If you find anything I say to be completely wrong, then show the fortitude to stand up for what you believe. Confront me in open debate on the issues and I may well yield to your better judgment. Avoid the trial by fire and I cannot respect your position.


It should be noted here that you are one of perhaps 6 people in these threads that I actually respect on many levels. You have often demonstrated a will to stand up for unpopular ideas in the face of overwhelming disagreement. This at least shows courage, which I respect. Above and beyond that you have presented most of your points quite intelligently and more importantly wisely. While I think these little trysts into such things as “free advice” are both condescending and ingenious, they are infrequent and so forgivable.

If I am in error as to your intentions here, then I would point out the PMs were designed for such comments of “free advice”, while your post was more of an exhibition on why you think I should be ignored.

Love and Peace, Karmashock.

[Ummon]

No, I have avoided a PM intentionally: frustration is the only stymulus you react to. As for the rest of your message, sorry, but I didn't bother reading it.

Each day you delay growing up, is a wasted day in your life Karma.

I will add that the fact that you are immature, insecure and rigid is self-evident. Your logic is not tight-wound, you are infact obsessively assertive. You lack knowledge of yourself, understanding of reality, modesty and respect. There are two ways to looks at these evident truths:

1) Feel aggressed
2) Learn from them and become a better person

You will pick 1, but 2 is the right answer.

There are two ways to look at those who criticize you.

1) As enemies
2) As people who are infact helping you

You always pick 1, but 2 is the right answer.

Being strong is not being always right. Being strong is learning to shut up and listen.

The reason why I am telling you this, is not because I dislike you. If I did, I would be rejoicing in your misery, not trying to change your ways, albeit in a distant fashion. Think about it.

[Karmashock]

If you didn't read the rest, then your response isn't based on complete information. It is therefore baseless.

I have read nothing beyond your declaration that you didn't read my post. This is fitting and proper. If you actually are interested in being regarded as anything more then a heckler, then have the respect to read a person's post before you think it appropriate to respond.

If I don't have the time to read a person's response, then I don't respond until such time as I have read it.

Until then, all of this is moot.

Love and peace, Karmashock.

[Ummon]

You will do as you wish. :)

[Karmashock]

I don't really have a choice. If you refuse to engage in a discussion, then I can only close the discussion until you are willing to actually read what the other person wrote back. Saying you didn't read is a declaration that talking to you would be less productive then talking to myself.

I cannot take any responsibility for the collapse of a discussion that you have acknowledged you will not participate in.

Love and peace, Karmashock.

[Ummon]

I am not participating because there is nothing more to say: you know my opinion, I cannot intrude myself in your life and show you why you are wrong, and you have all the right to your choices.

No need to talk about it any longer.

[Karmashock]

If that's your pretext... All I'm saying is that you aborted this discussion when you refused to read my response. If you think your post is beyond comment or discussion then perhaps I'm not the only one that suffers from narcissism. Perhaps it’s in fact a general trend of internet interactions that you inflated to suit your rather suspect ends. I don't appreciate snipes made at me and will always respond to them vigorously. If you don't think you sniped me, then I suggest you go back and read my reply... I think I laid out a fairly convincing case for that perspective.

I have treated you with far more tolerance then I reserve for most people that pursue this line with me. I have done so because I suspect you're someone worth my patience despite this occasional silliness. However, if you will do nothing more then snipe and run I can't help but feel there is increasingly less to you. I sincerely hope this fear is unfounded.

Love and peace, Karmashock.

[Tank0]

sorry for responding this late but i just read the conversation .


i dont care what system you use but 1 global standard would be practical

since Belgium was conquered by napoleon we use the metric system .

i am going to repeat the explanations they gave me

a foot was implemented by charles magne , he was fed up with all the different systems so he measured his foot ( 33cm ) and set it to be the standard

the imperial system is a heritage of old empires .
they counted on their hands and feet and every time they reached 6 they closed 1 hand again and kept one finger on the other hand .the metric system is harder to count that way because you have to remember how many times you counted both hands or remove your shoes and socks and count your toes

at the time of napoleon traders where complaining of fraud so the french decided to introduce the metric system in June 1799 based on natural constants and the decimal (10) system accompanied by a institute ( Archives de la République ) that has the original gram and kilo tucked away .they also decide that every unit should be derived from the basic units .

more info ? => http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/history.html

once a year every trader was forced to adjust their weights to the ones of the institute so they couldnt hollow out their weights

using celsius seems more natural to me but that can be my upbringing . if temperatures are negative you know its cold , even if you are a travelling trader .

1M = one ten-millionth of the length of the meridian through Paris from pole to the equator

later on adjusted to

The meter is the length of the path travelled by light in vacuum during a time interval of 1/299 792 458 of a second to fix the speed of light in vacuum at exactly 299 792 458 m·s-1

0° celsius = freezing of water at sealevel
100° celsius = boiling of water at sealevel

1 kilo = the weight of 1 liter water at sealevel
1 centigram = 1/10 kilo
1 decagram = 1/100 kilo
1 gram = 1/1000 of a kilo
1 milligram = 1/1000 of a gram

imo imperial system was the best standard B.C ( b4 computers :P )
but for calculating, the metric system is more practical

[Karmashock]

I have no problems with either system... I just don't like being told to do one or the other...

As to 'cheating' the system... well... I think everyone... everywhere... has been standardizing their units for a long time... Not in that they all use the same unit everywhere, but that steps are taken so that a pound = a standard pound... or a kilogram = a standard kilogram. If the French weren't doing this right before Napoleon’s time, then they were behind the curve. ;)

I mean… the fucking Romans did that… and I’m sure the Egyptians probably did to… which takes you back to fucking 4000 BC :D

Anyway, I did find metric units easier in my grade school math class… but I’ve also taken astrophysics… and at that level… it really doesn’t matter… if anything you find imperial units more useful because you know not to expect thing to divide by ten… lots of specialized unit systems can’t be divided by ten for specialized reasons… so the imperial system is good in the sense that it keeps you on your toes… no lazy assumptions.

Anyway, so long as no one tells me what to use, I’m happy.