WHY WOW TOTALLY SUX

[JADezimar]

Tephros
Well I learned today that WoW will be charging 14.95 per month of play. After having played the open beta, I realize that this game offers almost nothing new in an MMORPG, only a streamlined version of old ideas.

Unfortunately, as much as I love the Warcraft universe, I don't want to be playing an Everquest with PvP and different models.

I am so saddened, my last hope in the MMO genre is Mourning. I am a veteran Shadowbane player (I loved it) and it looks like Mourning is offering a lot of the innovative Shadowbane ideas along with a few new ones.

Bottom line:

I'd pay a monthly fee for a game with new ideas, new innovations and hardcore PvP.

I won't pay a monthly fee for a game with old ideas, watered-down PvP...even if it happens to be nice and pretty and streamlined.

The Morale:

Even if you have the prettiest and most attractive EQ clone, it is still an EQ clone, and will never be better than the ugliest PvP-centric MMO.

Why play wow theres alot of other games out there guild wars. Mourning. Darkfall even others I havnt seen or have seen but cant think of. Why hell I think old shadowbane be better than wow.


Methusla
Yep I totaly agree with both of you. I have said on this forum before that SB was the last game to contribute somethng to the genre.

This game has its share of bumps just like SB did but will the bloodline concept and teritorial laws stick and make Mourning a game to remember five years down the road? Would be nice if that happens because gawd knows we need some change in this part of gameland.

Darkfall is another game with alot of great ideas but its development statis is kinda unknown. WoW was fun but Ican see me getting tired of it by lvl 40 and wondering what the reson for playing is. Thats what happened to me in doac too. WoW is more like doac I think than EQ.


__________________
Explorer 73% Socializer 60% Killer 53% Achiever 13%
I think this guy has the same idea I got. He wants to play Darkfall but its so far away lets play mourning at the moment. Mourning comes out february 25th.

http://www.realmsoftorment.net thats mourning.
www.darkfallonline.com Thats darkfall

[LardGibs]

Well if you're a cheap ass bitch who can't afford mindcrack at $14.99/mo. we can't help ye.:thumbup



P.S. I never played EQ or MMORPG so WoW is all new to me, and rox0r!!11!

[MVB]

Dez, don't come into the WoW forum and bash WoW. You haven't played it, or haven't played it much, and aren't even qualified to simply copy and paste other peoples' ideas here. I could just as easily browse the WoW or other forums and find eloquently scribed positive posts about why WoW is the best, most boneriffic MMO ever. That is, at best, forum trolling and blatant plagiarism. Please refrain from doing this in the future.

[ebev]

I've played a ton of MMO's EQ, SWG, COH, Planteside, DAOC Anrchy online. And I think WOW may not be groundbreaking. BUt it's taken the very best of all of thoes and got rid of the crap from them. It's a DAMN good game. My wife is playing EQ2 and it looks like Sony leaned nothing from EQ1 or SWG becouse other than the nice grafics (that slows down all but the most mind blistering systms) it has nothing over wow, And to be honest I like the WOW grafics better.

[JADezimar]

Dez, don't come into the WoW forum and bash WoW

Someone must have put this in the wow forum, I didnt, I put it here in general discussion. Someone else must have moved it there thought it belonged in the wow area o0.

I could just as easily browse the WoW or other forums and find eloquently scribed positive posts about why WoW is the best, most boneriffic MMO ever. That is, at best, forum trolling and blatant plagiarism
It is not plagiarism when i gave them credit for it. If you remember in your own english class if you gave the author credit for it then its not plagiarism. And far as forum patrollling goes. I see nothing wrong with reading forums of other video games mvb. I think your way off base here. With giving me an order on not to do anything that Ive done here I dont c anything done wrong here. I am merely Showing a couple of opinions of people that view it exactly like I do. I was hoping to join a gaming clan with a bit more high class taste not those that go on the firsts media band wagon (they can get there hands on) but almost every game I ever c talked about on these forums are the most well known to ppl. Lets find and play games with some originality that add to the genre something new. Not old copy cats. This wow Is lame and I have the right to say it.

Well I c pvp is as a strong part of a game. I dont pay for an internet connection, I dont pay for an online game. Not to have a game highly motivated if not built around some sorda Player vs Player. Those that dont mind could be playing games Like eldar scrolls etc and be having just as much fun. All games like EQ 2 and WoW are just eldar scrolls with ppl to chat with. I dont pay my money for that. Thats Where I am getting at if its ok with you than thats fine. But I wanted to express some opinions and Ideas. Thats all mvb you will please refrain from asking me not to in the future :).

Thx guyz appreciate the replys. I do think WoW is better than eq2,eq1, swg etc it has taken all the best things from those games, it is a better game than those games. (But thats all it has done is taken there best parts, and not come up with any good ones of there own) Ill let you guyz know how guild wars, mourning, and darkfall turn out. (who knows they may be a failure but atleast ill have fun finding out:p)

Later guyz ill check in again.

[MVB]

I've played guild wars, a fair bit, and it sucks compared to WoW, IMO. It has nothing "new" in and of itself, besides the monthly cost differences, the graphics are worst, the actual combat mechanics are significantly worse, etc. etc.

Guildwars is the only one with any significant advantage, though, and that's simply the cost/month.

Frankly, I think that's a BAD thing, because requiring a credit card cuts out a lot of the 12-15 year old dumbfecks who clot up lobbies and chatlogs with dumbfeckness.

[MVB]

Oh, and on the plagiarism thing ...

You missed what I'm saying ... what I'm saying is, I could go and find quotes that say WoW is amazing ... what's the point?

If you aren't talking from first-hand experience of the game, you shouldn't be talking about it at all -- you aren't a qualified source.

What you did is take quotes from others, which isn't "wrong" but isn't really proving anything. Again, the point is I could just take like 50 other people saying WoW is totally awesome. Until you've played it yourself, you don't have an opinion on it, although you think you do -- you just have regurgitated chat about it from others.

I'm not saying this is wrong -- I'm simply saying it's useless.

[JADezimar]

You havnt played mourning or Darkfall let alone read up on them. So you cant posts an opinion on the way they stand on it either. Atleast ive read up on everything wow to make sure I wasnt missing out.


I will take your word for it on guild wars. I was less interested in it myself. #2 your point of it not requireing a credit card. I never thought of that. And you make an incredible point there. I get tired of playing with the young ***#*#*# just as much as anybody.

[MVB]

I didn't mention a strong opinion on Darkfall or Mourning, other than the fact that they were -- by what I'd read on them and what-not -- vastly inferior to WoW by all appearances. Nonetheless, I have as little right to comment on them as you have to comment on WoW ... namely, none. Until you play a game, words are meaningless, and that's what I'm trying to tell you.

You can find as many people saying good things about WoW, and probably MORE than people who are saying bad things about it. How do you decide which is right? You play the game, or you don't.

[Elysium]

you do know that the main ages that play MMORPG's are 10 to 20 o.0 its a bad move that they can't pay as easy as it has 2 be.

anyway 1 of the main reasons is that its indeed not really giving out anything new, besides better graphics. and we all know that doesnt make the game.

why pay 14,95 here when there is a cheaper ho on the other block.

[Quietus]

I have been following Darkfall since it was announced, but the way its looking we wont see that game for a long time still.

All Darkfall does is combine UO with AC, and throws in some other ideas that have already been implemented in other MMOs. Sure it sounds awesome, but you cant start spewing off how much better it will be than wow. Especially when you haven't even tried WoW for yourself, your going off what others have said.

[MVB]

Elysium, the average age of WoW is well over 20, I can tell you that. I think basically everyone in our guild, for instance, is over 20, or close, and we certainly weren't recruiting based on age. MOST 10-20 year olds can't convince their parents to pay 15/month with their credit cards.

Plus, as quietus and I have already said, don't talk about MMOs being better or worse than WoW when you haven't even tried it for yourselves.

[JADezimar]

Lol mvb when it comes to wow 9/10 that do try it like it. You know why? cuase there already hyped up about blizzard and they like eq type games. Those that dont like that type WILL NOT TRY IT. Thats something you will have to understand. I wouldnt like it if I tried it I promise. Cuase it doesnt offer the kinda content I want. When it comes to this kinda game if there are key features a person absolutely is looking for. They already can tell you if they will or will not like a game. They can say they will like one and then turn out to hate it cuase things ideas were implemented badly. But if there looking for something that isnt implemented in a game period they know they wont like a game whether they tried it or not. (Like I said I may enjoy the 1 player like experience of WoW, But thats not what im looking for in an mmorpg I want a competetive online type game. Which is motivated) Thank You, stop trying to talk me into trying it before bashing :) And quiteous when it comes to judges of certain genre that have played them its pretty easy to find people with very similiar views etc. Going off what others have said usually works. Im not saying thats what I have done.

[Elysium]

i may not have tried it out myself, but that does not mean that i don't know anything about it, i know more than enough to know that its not worth the 15 bucks a month(which is way overpriced) if your looking for a MMORPG. if your just looking for a game that looks good ya found it. yet it overs the same thing as other MMORPG's that are free or cost a whole lot less.

[MVB]

Dez, I don't want you to try it at all -- you've so hyped yourself up against it that you'd whine and complain about it, which I would not like one bit. What I'm trying to say is that your and elysium's argument about it being nonunique is actually wrong. Having played several MMORPGS, and having actually played WoW, and having strongly DISLIKED blizzard as a company beforehand (oh yes), I can tell you that it has several unique/improved features, is a fantastic game, and is actually more fun IMO than HW:C, which was my "favorite game ever" up until this point. I'm offended slightly by judging a game having never played it, and actually judging it inaccurately.

If, for instance, you said "I tried WoW, and even though the combat system is insanely well balanced and brilliantly conceived, I hate it because I would rather have to click the mouse every time I want to attack," then I would go "ok, well that's silly, but you've tried it firsthand and not liked it, so ok." I don't want you to get the game, I want you to not make silly, mistaken comments about something you've never tried yourself.

[Shackled Phoenix]

why is this arguement still even going? You don't wanna play WoW, fine don't, you don't even have to try it. But why the hell come into forums designed for people who DO like WoW and try and tell them it sucks? what's the friggen point?

And again, Why the hell is this argument even still going?

[LardGibs]

:locked: soon get your last words in then

[JADezimar]

lol

This is a debate just like the political debates? WHy lock it ?

But why the hell come into forums designed for people who DO like WoW and try and tell them it sucks?

Obviously if these forums were designed for only people that liked WoW. Me and elysium wouldnt be here would we o0.

I don't want you to get the game, I want you to not make silly, mistaken comments about something you've never tried yourself.

lol

And MVB cying that you like it more than homeworld Im truly happy for you. I am not joking. I hope you guzy honestly have fun in WoW which you are doing ok. Are we square ?

[Elysium]

i was only here because the title appealed to me, i don't read this section of the forums. 8)

[ToxicGene]

You guys should try Wish. It's UMMORPG and you have approx. 1 day to sign up for open beta. Beta starts on Jan 1st.

www.mutablerealms.com

[DrunkenUno]

You guys should try Wish. It's UMMORPG and you have approx. 1 day to sign up for open beta. Beta starts on Jan 1st.

www.mutablerealms.com
Ur such a cocknugget.

PS... lookin forward to beta ;)

[MVB]

Read the wish frontpage; they're already nervous that they won't be able to handle all the players at once. Suppose that's at least wise in an open beta, which really means "publicity stunt where they won't listen to any players, just to their in-housers." Reminds me of DoW.

[KPR[X-303]]

Mmm WOW ISnt the best and in some ways it does suck i dont mean to bash it but it comes on top with its small time can accomplish things trait the graphics and the scenere but in action its a bit lacking and in the repetitive ness trait also but its a very good game

Planetside was great but it lacked in the Imagination Department and a bit in the Congruation department but it had no repetitiveness and had to much action.

EQ II lacks and makes it hard with the complication trait but is a very good game once you get past the complications

[ToxicGene]

Read the wish frontpage; they're already nervous that they won't be able to handle all the players at once. Suppose that's at least wise in an open beta, which really means "publicity stunt where they won't listen to any players, just to their in-housers." Reminds me of DoW.

If you signed up, you'd receive an email saying that they would accept applications every few days, which means that you may not get in the beta on Jan 1st but maybe a bit later. (tho u will get in)

:agree:


And after this beta, they'll close it again for 2.5 and selected few will be able to participate in that closed beta. (around 2k..)

[JADezimar]

Wish has no pvp i saw that game ages ago. No pvp at all. Id rather play WoW which has a form of pvp. *yet limited* but a form of it.

[MVB]

Dez, the PvP in WoW is AWESOME .... the complaint of some is there is no "risk," which a) isn't true, because you do suffer in some ways for dying, and b) ignores the fact that the ACTUAL competition is amazing.

You might as well say there's no 1v1 in DoW. You don't gain or lose anything permanent in DoW by winning or losing a game, but it's still capable of being a ton of fun. The PvP in WoW is well-designed and tons of fun to do, PLUS there are huge benefits for PvP that you can't get any other way (titles, extra quests, rewards, unique items, etc.). You're focusing in on "you don't lose everything when you die" and ignoring the fact that the actual pvp in WoW is amazing, and has near limitless potential for size, teamwork, micro, etc.

[2biT]

I have ordered a import so i will be crackin' heads soon.

[MVB]

w00t

Dalaran Server, Alliance; we'll hook you up bigtime cashwise and otherwise :)

[LardGibs]

If you haven't made up your mind, consider a Druid, herbalism, alchemy.

Rogue is also good..

These are underrepresented at the moment, IMO.

Pick whatever you want of course though, msg us in game when you arrive and the squad will arrive.

[2biT]

Im going rogue on one server and mage on another (TC peeps on 1 server) so i havnt decided which server get which char, yet. Of course im going to a pvp server when i feel confident that i have the exp..

[Quietus]

Only difference between a pvp server and a pve server, is that you will get ganked while leveling/questing. All the fun to be had is in the large scale fights/duels/battlegrounds. If you find being ganked by 2 lvl 60s, when your doing a lvl 30 quest fun, go ahead. =)

Rogue is far from overpowered. Easily the best DPS class there is, with a few very obvious bugs (Hemorrhage) that make them extremely overpowered in both pvp and pve. I'm talking killing mobs several levels higher in seconds, doing 2k damage per hit in pvp, etc.

Druid is the most underpowered at the moment, though.

Don't forget warriors either. I was testing out a fury build, got my standard attack damage up to about 1100-1800 per hit (at lvl 45). Without using half of my passives or any abilities. Apply that to whirlwind, sweeping strikes, or cleave, and thats ridiculous DPS. Greater than any rogue, mage, or hunter.

[2biT]

Ive been reading the forums, it seems to me that rogues have a really good first strike, but in stand up fights against any class they get raped!

they sound like the coolest class to play anyway, when i get it (next 4 days) ill have a play and read the manual, then decide..
:p

[laserflip]

Oh, and on the plagiarism thing ...

You missed what I'm saying ... what I'm saying is, I could go and find quotes that say WoW is amazing ... what's the point?

If you aren't talking from first-hand experience of the game, you shouldn't be talking about it at all -- you aren't a qualified source.

What you did is take quotes from others, which isn't "wrong" but isn't really proving anything. Again, the point is I could just take like 50 other people saying WoW is totally awesome. Until you've played it yourself, you don't have an opinion on it, although you think you do -- you just have regurgitated chat about it from others.

I'm not saying this is wrong -- I'm simply saying it's useless.

freedom of speech anyone? just another way i compare MVB to a dictator ;)

[Quietus]

Warriors are the strongest hands down in any long fight. Rage is an endless resource, where mana and sometimes energy are depleted soon into a fight.

Some rogues are only good for the initial few seconds of a fight, where they do drop thousands of damage in seconds, and then have to wait for their energy to recharge.

Other rogues I've seen can compare to warriors in a long duration fight, specializing in the Combat tree. They still do great dps, but not all at once like others... their dps is spread throughout a fight, just like a warrior.

[MVB]

A dictator has control of things entirely, and tells people what they can't do. I simply suggested Dez shouldn't IMO do something, and I don't really "run" anything in TLSC anymore; I simply provide -- with stealth -- a final check to big decisions.

Rawr, teh pwn.


Quietus is right about PvP ... the best PvPing will be in big duels/guild vs guild duels/battlegrounds/etc., where it's arranged to a greater or lesser degree; PvP just makes for a situation where people can sneak up on you out of nowhere at twice your level and "gank" you, as Quietus so eloquently put it. When Heroes of the Command gets most of its members to 50+, we'll be doing a lot of serious PvP/Battlegroundsing, most likely. We're partying together a lot in the quests to get used to how to work well togehter as a team; we're quite good, IMO, and it shows in our dueling; I routinely crush warriors with better equipment and higher levels.

[2biT]

It seams to me from what ive read (my copy should be here tomorrow with any luck!) that the way to play rogues in pvp is to either sneak up a twat a person from behind, then vanish before they entagle you and rape your ass. Or i what i think maybe a better use, is wait for the tanks in the party to get stuck in and then while they are fighting strike out and basically try and really harm them, thus ending your tanks fight quicker? Would this work?

[LardGibs]

The best rogue player I observed to date, Jaerius, was a fade-backstabber, and used 'hamstring' or 'sap' or something. And the damage was dealt out in the 1000s on elites. Other people seem to use their rogues as dual-wield tanks, which also seems to work ok.

[MVB]

Best thing to do is pair with a priest and a tank, and let the tank get caught in, use the priest to heal and dispel entanglements (priests dispel, right lard?), and sneak in while the warrior draws attention. If they refuse to pay attention to the warrior, he can always switch to bstance and fuck with 'em bigtime.

[LardGibs]

Yes, dispel magic. I don't have much practice with it but it works on banishment, and probably DOTs as well.

Mind control is also somewhat hard to use, but you can steal spells and healing from enemy spellcasters :D

[Quietus]

PvP usually isnt as slow as PvE. 1v1s end in seconds, even at lvl 60.

Many of the factors that are important against monsters go right out the window in PvP. Things like your % to hit, dodge, crit, etc all change vs monsters, but none change in PvP, at all.

So Rogues can usually completely dominate everyone but Defensive Warriors, Paladins, etc. Even without stealthing.

This paper > rock > scissors kind of formula applies to all the classes, with a slight exception to priest (Shadow), and certain warlock specs which can take on anyone usually.

So while the Sap thing usually puts someone out of a fight for a good time, Warlocks can still command their pets (mezzing, fearing, killing you), Mages can blink out of the Sap, and Priests/Paladins will shield/heal to full soon as you do 1 point of damage.

[LardGibs]

Dear God Mind control is awesome. grabbed a defias prisoner mob and used him to do backstab on Targorr the dread. Now I'll get to play all the classes!

[2biT]

Well im gutted my copy didnt arrive today :[

Should be here tomorrow, if its not ill cut someone..

Well ive narrowed it down to either playing a Druid (sounds like a underestimated class), rogue (sounds cool to play) or warlock/mage (i like the idea of throwing magic arround or summoning demons)..

[Quietus]

Lard, wait until you run up on some enemy character fighting a mob.

Use mind control on his mob, and it immediately flags him for PvP, then use your pet and yourself to beat the shit out of him. :nod:

[2biT]

lol,

[Quietus]

Warlocks have it the best past 40.

Needed in groups for AE (better than mages for it).

Pets start getting awesome (Imp can break 200 dps at higher levels, by himself).

Warlocks DPS gets huge (affliction talents on ST, destruction AE).

And for Soloing they have it the easiest, getting Enslave Demon at 40. This enables them to enslave any demon, elite/boss/etc and use them for an indefinate amount of time. Incredibly powerful, especially if they are Demonology spec.

[LardGibs]

Lard, wait until you run up on some enemy character fighting a mob.

Use mind control on his mob, and it immediately flags him for PvP, then use your pet and yourself to beat the shit out of him. :nod:Yeah, I have razorfen kraul penciled in to play with the little hordelings :D
Not that I'm complaining but you'd think elites would have more MC resistance, so fun to grab the boss and make him clear the room.

-edit-

Quietus, wth should I be chargin for spider belts (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=5796)? I sold one for 50s out of desperation and the person (lv 44) wanted 4 more for their buds...

[Quietus]

Yes, inflate the price as much as you can.

Warriors, Melee Shamans, Paladins, pretty much anyone who relies on melee needs a way to break roots (except Gnomes). And there are only a few items that can do that.

The Spider Belt (30 minute reuse timer)

Ornate Mithril Boots (30 minute reuse timer)

Free Action Potions (1 minute timer, expensive as hell, same timer as HP pots)

Melee classes rely on these heavily in PvP, so by all means, charge 5 gp for em. =)

[Allia]

At lvl 15 I went between loch modan and westfall. I think at 17-18 I went to redridge and then to the wetlands at 19.

I lvl'ed real fast in the wetlands in a group with one other guy. Then, I just bounced around from area to area, and I'm at 34 now. I just made the move to Kalimor but I'm still moving around alot.

Allia

[Neverender]

Someone in here said that druids are underpowered, and I must say, I AGREE.

Hopefully Blizz will hook me up soon, though. I'm level 45 now, and I'm not doing nearly enough damage, only reason I can solo 2-3 level higher than me is 'cuz I can constantly heal myself....but the battle is long and drawn out.

Not enough dps.

:(

[2biT]

Are you using the other shapes? Like bear -> heal -> bear -> heal?

[Quietus]

It costs a significant amount of mana to shift each time, and the abilities in each form are pretty lacking. Druids I know say they are much better off sticking in their caster form, dropping Moonfire and such for damage, and rooting/healing when needed.

[Neverender]

Since my last post, I have respecced. I am dealing alot more damage now that most of my points are in Balance. 34 (I think) there and 11 points in Restoration. Feral can go fuck itself, I've heard it's a waste.

Now, it's a Starfire opener, followed by a Wrath or 2, a Moonfire, then advance for melee with my 2H Mace. OoC procs and I can heal for no mana loss on occasion. If it gets really hairy then Dire Bear form will draw the fight out longer, usually gaining enough mana in the meantime to shift out for a quick heal.

Cat is only good for Prowling (Stealth), pretty much worthless dps.

So I am all caster/melee damage and secondary healing - Dire Bear for emergencies.

Overall, I think Druid is the most versatile class, very fun to play, ALOT of strategies to experiment with....they don't excel in any one thing, but they are pretty decent at about everything....

We die alot. lol.